Archive for the Q&A Category

This marks the 1,000th edition of this weekly newsletter, first published September 20, 2002. Over all these years, one idea continues to permeate all of Ask The Headhunter: To win a job, do the job in your interview. Everything else I write about, and everything we discuss in the Q&A and the Comments section, clarifies and expands on this idea. That’s why I chose reader John Grace’s e-mail about how he won his job by doing the job in his interview.

A reader’s story

I started a new job, and I think Nick would be proud of how I got the job.

In the interview, I did the job. I couldn’t figure out what exactly it was the company did from its website, but a mutual friend had connected us, telling the company it “needed” me.

It quickly became apparent that the company couldn’t explain its business in the interview. They knew what they did, but they spent 10 minutes explaining it in technical jargon. There and then I knew why my contact said they needed me.

I took over a whiteboard and made a very focused argument about why the company needed to be better at explaining what they do (they are a technology company). Before I was completely done, the interviewer said to stop and that he would be back in a minute.

He returned with a gentleman who was introduced as the CEO and I was introduced as “the guy you’ve got to hear.”

Within twenty minutes several other managers came into the room. Two of them asked me how I would solve their current biggest problem. The CEO stood up at the end of the meeting and said, “We’ve got to have this guy on board. Do whatever it takes.”

That’s how I started my most recent position.

Thank you, Nick. Not everyone can understand the idea of doing the job, but the ones that do are great. Those are the people I want to work for. Your book helped me to sell myself that way.

John Grace

Nick’s Reply

There is nothing easy about doing the job in the interview; nor is there any substitute for it. Your resume won’t do it, your LinkedIn profile won’t do it, and being able to answer the Top 10 Stupid Interview Questions won’t do it.

Every situation will require a different approach depending on the business and the job, and on the problems and challenges the hiring manager needs you to address.

Doing the job

The underlying idea is profound and powerful: Do the job to win the job, right there in the interview. But, to what extent and in how much detail? That‘s up to the candidate. If the candidate is not prepared to think fast on their feet like you did, I can’t help them and they probably don’t belong in that meeting because they’re not prepared.

I know: This is a very tall order, and if employers expected job applicants to do the kind of presentation you did, then more interviews would result in job offers and new hires.

But then the job boards, LinkedIn and every ATS company would go out of business. And good riddance, because today’s Employment System is a house of cards. Employers and job seekers alike should step back and let it fall because it has already failed.

Of course, much goes into preparing to demonstrate what you can do. That’s what all of Ask The Headhunter is about. (If you’re new to this, please start with the links above.)

I am honored by anyone who uses my advice to win a job and then shares the outcome. So I thank you, John, for sharing your story and for your permission to share it with others. I would have given a lot to be a fly on the wall while you did the whiteboard presentation you described! Nice work doing the job to win the job. Thank you for your story and for your kind permission to publish it!

Where did 1,000 editions come from?

When I first started Ask The Headhunter, I felt good about sharing what I knew with my readers. After all these years, I find I learn more from my readers than they learn from me. While I’ve produced 1,000 editions of weekly Q&A columns, I’ve actually answered over 50,000 questions from readers since Ask The Headhunter was born. That’s where the article-quality Q&A columns start — I edit the very best of the questions you send me that I answer.

For this enormous archive of Q&A I owe a very special thank-you to one of The Motley Fool’s founding partners, Erik Rydholm, who found my stuff on Prodigy, adopted me and gave Ask The Headhunter a chance to reach a huge audience on The Fool and America Online. I’d been getting around 10 questions a week on the Prodigy forum I started, but on AOL it grew to 50 or more. I asked Erik, “You don’t really expect me to answer every single question anybody asks, right?” Erik gave me the best advice: “Sure! You can do it! Answer every single question you get!” (The rest is yet another story!)

In a lifetime, a headhunter would not encounter all the situations and experiences that ATH readers have reported in our discussions on the website. Thanks to all who have shared their problems and challenges in finding (and filling) jobs — especially for contributing your insight, wisdom and advice in the Comments section every week! What I’m most proud of is the high standard of discourse on our forum!

Are you looking for a better job? Are you interviewing candidates to fill a job? On to the next! And please share your questions so I can get on to the next edition, too! And if you have a story or experience about Ask The Headhunter or about “do the job to win the job,” please add it to the Comments below — especially if it’s from the Prodigy or AOL days!

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Question

I had an interview over the phone since the manager was out of state. Things went okay and then he asked me to put together a 30-60 day business plan for what I would do to increase business. The idea is for us to have a face-to-face interview next (assuming he likes what I wrote, I guess).

I was very skeptical but I went along. I probably didn’t spend enough time or do a thorough enough job because I really don’t think the job is a fit, but we’ll see. I wrote up some really high-level stuff and told him there wasn’t any reasonable way for me to generate a more detailed plan on the basis of a one-hour phone conversation. Of course I thanked him for his time and told him I looked forward to meeting him.

I haven’t heard back and frankly I’m pretty lukewarm on the opportunity, but I just wonder what you think of his request. It seems a bit odd if not inappropriate to me. It also seems like a no-win situation as I’m in no position to write a meaningful business plan.

Nick’s Reply

Is this manager’s request an odd interview strategy? Not at all. In fact, it’s very smart. It’s the interview approach I recommend to both job hunters and employers. Focus on the work. And that’s what this manager was doing.

Some employers want to know what you’re going to deliver. And that’s smart. I don’t mean to offend you, but you blew an opportunity. Don’t worry: you can learn from this. Let’s look at what happened.

Sure enough to do a business plan?

“I probably didn’t spend enough time or do a thorough enough job because I really don’t think the job is a fit.”

That is your key problem. You can’t be effective with the manager’s request if you “really” aren’t sure the job is a fit. And that will sink you in any interview, whether on the phone, in person, or in the form of the business plan this manager requested. This is why I say most interviews are a total waste of time.

It’s because people aren’t really ready to tackle them properly because they’re not sure enough that they want the job.

A business plan you can defend

“I was very skeptical but figured I’d go along. I wrote up some really high-level stuff and told him there wasn’t any reasonable way for me to generate a more detailed plan on the basis of a one-hour phone conversation. Of course I thanked him for his time and told him I looked forward to meeting him.”

This is where you actually took the step that blew it. You tried to fake it with “high-level stuff.” That’s not what a manager is looking for. He’s looking for an honest plan of how you will do the job day one, week one, month one, year one. Now, such a manager doesn’t expect you to be right on the money. You don’t need to provide “the right answer.” You do need to provide a carefully thought out plan that you can explain and defend.

The point is to engage the manager; to show that you are thinking about the key issues. The manager is trying to get you to reveal your thinking process and to engage you in the work. It’s a good opportunity for a job candidate who really wants the job.

But, how can you perform at your best in an interview if you’re not sure you want the job? How can you be sure it’s worth investing the time and effort to do a good business plan? The answer is pretty straightforward: You must know more about the company, the manager and the work. Otherwise, there’s no way to build the self-motivation that would drive you to do the sort of preparation that reveals the savvy and enthusiasm the manager wants to see.

Choose carefully

Avoid the random interview. Choose your target companies carefully — and you can’t do that if you apply to hundreds of companies through those dopey online job boards.

Suppose you applied for 100 jobs and — whoopee! — they all invited you to submit business plans. How could you possibly prepare an intelligent presentation for each of them? You couldn’t. And that’s what you need to reconsider: how to choose your targets.

Engage the hiring manager

You’re asking a very valid question because you encountered a very smart manager. What could you have done after he issued his challenge? It’s only natural that you cannot produce a business plan by yourself, or with an hour’s worth of dialogue! You need more information, just as you might if you were already an employee.

You could have organized your thoughts and figured out what additional information you needed. Then you could have called him back to ask your questions. “I want to present you with a plan I can be proud of — and to do that I need some additional information.” But, that call would have required real motivation. Did you have it? Make sure you do for the next opportunity you develop.

Do a business plan, but don’t work for free!

One caution about all this. Some managers use “the business plan exercise” to get free work from job candidates. It’s rare, but it happens. A job hunter must always judge the integrity of the employer. If you provide the sample of work an employer asks for, make sure you withhold the details of the implementation part of your plan. That is, don’t give them so much that they can get the job done without you. Never work for free.

You can do this

Other than that, my view is that this manager did the right thing. He asked you to show how you would do the job profitably. My guess is that if you can target the right company, manager, and job, you’ll do a good job on this kind of task.

The problem you’ll encounter is that few managers will ask you to do something so meaningful. Your challenge is to offer it even if they don’t ask. Your mission is to educate them about what you can do. In my opinion, producing a brief business plan is a very smart way to demonstrate your worth to an employer.

You can do this. On to the next!

Seriously? You want job seekers to create written business plans for every job they apply to? Yep. Why not? This turns the entire “apply for a job” process on its head. Do you agree?

Next week: In the 1,000th edition of the newsletter a reader shares an example of how to win the job by doing the job in the interview. That’s why this edition is #999.

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Question

Can I hedge job offers? Here is the deal: I got a job offer with company A. I am coming up on the end of the interview process with company B, which I would much prefer to work for. What is the proper way to address this? Tell company B that I have an offer to get it to move faster? Or should I try to push off the company A start date to give B more time? Or, should I just start with company A then, if company B makes a good offer, quit A? I want to be fair.

Nick’s Reply

You want to be fair? What’s that got to do with the interview schedules of two companies? Fairness doesn’t come into it. (If these employers wanted to be fair, they’d coordinate their interviews for your benefit, right? Hardly. This is business.) If you try to control any company’s interview or hiring schedule you may risk any job offer from them.

Hedge job offers by making choices

You have just one binary choice at this point: To accept or decline the offer from company A.

Don’t let fantasies of fairness cloud reality. You have no other offer, and you don’t know whether you will get one. You can reject A and wait for B. If you want the A offer, then accept it and deal with B when and if they make an offer — and you don’t know whether they will.

Sometimes, you must hedge job offers for the good of your career.

Employers hedge job offers, too

Accepting the offer from A does not mean you must stop talking with B — or stop waiting for B. Do you think employers stop talking to other candidates while they wait on an answer from their first choice? Employers hedge job offers because they know people sometimes change their minds, and they wisely want to keep their options open until a new hire shows up and starts work. This hedging explains many of the “unexplained” delays of corporate hiring decisions.

Likewise, the prudent way to handle your situation is to make one choice at a time and to hedge your bets to protect your options.

Deal with the real choice

To hedge job offers is not unethical or unfair. Dealing with each choice as it comes along is simply good business. Don’t let the uncertain future confuse you about what your present choices really are.

Suppose you reject A so you can wait for B, and then B makes no offer. How would you feel? Is that fair of B? Fairness is not the issue at all.

I discuss this at length in Fearless Job Hunting, Book 9: Be The Master Of Job Offers. For a limited time, this PDF book is 50% off, as are all my PDF books. Visit the bookstore and use discount code=ATH50 when checking out!

How would you deal with staggered job offers? Is it unethical to accept an offer, only to drop it if a better one comes along? Is that unfair? Please share your experiences with us — and the outcomes.

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Question

I have an interview scheduled next week with a leading bank, and I am a very good fit for the role in corporate middle management. Based on conversations I’ve had with people that work at the company and people that have turned down job offers there, I expect a low salary offer. The HR recruiter asked me what salary I expected, and I talked around the question without giving a number, ending with, “I really need to think about that because it depends on multiple factors.” She requested that I get back to her with my number. Since I have the interview scheduled should I wait and let them make the offer (assuming they do)? Or should I preemptively tell her a number that is slightly above what I believe to be fair based on research (not on my opinion of myself)?

Also, is there a way to set the anchor on the high side without sounding like I’m full of myself? Thanks for your help.

Nick’s Reply

The unknown factor is HR’s predisposition toward low salary offers. Even though you’ve been told they make low salary offers, you don’t really know how this HR person will handle the matter. So anything you do (or don’t do) presents a risk. Including doing nothing at all. So I’ll tell you what I’d do — but you must use your judgment and any other information you have at your disposal.

Avoid a low salary offer

I agree you need to set an anchor, but you have already accepted the interview. If you learn during this interview what the job is really all about, you should be ready to quote your desired salary range when your meeting ends. If you need an additional meeting to fully understand the work, I’d ask for a follow-up interview and explain that then you’d be happy to give them a desired range.

How to Say It
“But I can’t do that until I know in more detail what the job entails. Specifically, I’d like to discuss what you would need me to accomplish at milestones of three months, six and 12, and what opportunities would enable me to do the work in a way that adds to your profitability.”

You could also ask them what range they have in their budget for the job. (Fair play, eh?)

Then, once you know what is their business plan for the job, I’d tell them the salary I expect is between $X – $Y, with a range of about 5%. This is a reasonable way to use the anchoring effect to your advantage. I’d add that you’re not playing negotiating games — this is really what you’re looking for, since they asked, and you’re prepared to justify it.

Don’t play the “high-low” game

Now the hard part: You really must be ready to justify your desired range. You must also be ready to tell what the “multiple factors” are. I like to lean on “how I’m going to do this job more profitably than you expected” as a big factor. (Please see Stand Out: How to be the profitable hire.)

To avoid the high-low salary game, I’d keep the X-Y range tight. And I’d be ready to accept $X if they offer it. But I would not go in high just because you expect they will come in low. (That is playing games!) I’d actually give them a range you’d accept, and even say, “If your offer is in this range, I accept it.” Making this kind of preemptive commitment is a very powerful negotiation tool. It establishes your desire to take the job, which is always a concern of an employer. Of course, you must have already satisfied yourself that you really want this job.

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If it’s a low salary offer, be ready to walk

If they come in low, you can easily say, “Well, you asked me, and I told you, and I wasn’t playing negotiating games.” Then you must be ready to walk away — unless they make an honest effort to “meet you in between” that you find acceptable. This puts the burden on them.

If you find they will not work with you on the range, then I think you must conclude that these are not going to be great people to work with. Don’t discount the information you acquire about them through this process — you will have to live with these people a long time. Think carefully about that.

Set an anchor early when you can

You’re wise to think about the anchor effect, but at this point, I think it’s hard to set an anchor that’s higher than what you’d really accept. If avoiding a low salary offer is really possible with an employer, I believe you need to set the anchor much earlier in the process — when you first start talking and before you agree to interview.

As I said, you must use your own best judgment. Every situation is unique, so don’t beat yourself up about handling it perfectly. The scenario — and your salary requirement — will likely change as you get more information about the job and the company.

I wish you the best.

Would you interview for a job if you knew in advance that the offer would very likely be low? How would you handle it? Have you ever been able to negotiate a salary meaningfully higher than an employer offered?

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Question

What do you think of the desperation tactics people are resorting to on LinkedIn to beg others to help them land a job? (I’ve seen offers of cash for job leads!) Does this work? What’s the cleanest way to do this (without looking bad!)?

Nick’s Reply

Early in my Silicon Valley headhunting career, I was passing through an office suite when a singing gorilla appeared. A desperate, unemployed engineer was using a clever tactic to get his resume noticed. He hired a delivery guy dressed as a singing gorilla to deliver a box of pizza to managers he hoped would interview him. Taped atop the box was his resume.

I never learned whether it worked, but that was one very funny gorilla.

Doing tricks to land a job

The purpose of this column is to highlight some of the unbelievable tricks job seekers are playing on themselves so they can pretend someone’s going to find them a job.

What I’d like is your take on these efforts to dress up excuse after clever excuse for how to avoid doing the hard work to find a good job: carefully picking the few right employers and demonstrating to them how you’ll do the job profitably if they hire you.

Desperation Road

Frustrated, frazzled job seekers are keenly aware that what they’re doing to find their next job is not very effective. In fact, what they experience is captured in a complaint attributed to Lewis Carroll: “The hurrier I go, the behinder I get.”

This website is abundant with readers’ stories of endless failures in their job searches. The common refrain is, “I keep applying to more and more jobs, but I can’t get hired.”

That’s why they come here. Because we lay bare the foibles of our broken employment system. We all know that this system is almost purely reliant on staggering quantities of job listings and accompanying fire-hose-style job applications. Employers have created a Sisyphean digital road to All The Jobs that people race along faster and harder — only to find at the end of it a stinking dump waiting to swallow them up and spit them back out.

And in utter desperation they have to run that road again and again and again, because it seems there’s no choice.

Gone down the wrong road

The answer to this hamster-on-a-treadmill quandary is found in a Turkish saying: “No matter how far you have gone down the wrong road, turn back.”

Job seekers just don’t want to turn back. They believe they’ve invested too much to stop now. But that Turkish wisdom is the best advice they’ll ever get.

Rather than question their painfully held belief that some process, some expert, some database or some A .I. is going to help them land a job, they keep running the same road, but each time dressed in some new kind of gorilla suit they’ve been told will make a difference.

They know they’re on the wrong job-hunting road but they won’t turn back.

“Weirdly creative” tactics

A recent Washington Post column reports that “Desperate for jobs, people try new social media tactics to stand out”. The article says “job seekers are getting weirdly creative to land their next jobs.”

They’re not deploying singing gorillas, but they’ve learned to beg like a dog on social media. What we’re seeing more and more is that these social media tricks aren’t working well.

At least the singing gorilla was amusing.

I recommend you read the entire WaPo article because I think it will help you keep your eye on the real objective — a new job — no matter what anyone else is doing. Gorilla tactics (and cash offers for job leads) may seem clever. They’re not. I won’t take up space here suggesting better alternatives because you’ll find them throughout Ask The Headhunter. Let’s take a hard look at how far off the path job seekers have gone. The following real-life stories about (NOT) getting a job are from the Washington Post link above.

A good signal?

One job seeker boasts he’s got a “whatever-it-takes mentality.”

He’s offering $3,000 on LinkedIn to anyone that finds him a job, and he hopes this is “…a good signal for a potential employer that I’m proactive, and I’m trying to solve this problem in a creative way.” If I were his potential employer, here’s my first interview question: “Is paying somebody to do your work a signal that you can do this job for me?”

How’s it working for him? He’s got no job offers but seems excited about thinking up more offers he can make to entice others to find him a job.

The recruiter that can’t land a job

A woman uses her LinkedIn page to recruit friends and contacts to find her a job. She lists nine examples of how good she would be at the job she wants, if only somebody could find it and bring it to her.

Her expertise? She’s an “HR-minded recruiter.” She’s got 15 years of experience recruiting, but “she said she’s only landed two interviews out of hundreds of job applications.” No job offers.

Revealing on LinkedIn that you can’t do for yourself what you want a paycheck to do for an employer. Say what?!”

#Desperate to work

A young guy trying to break into cybersecurity thought he’d found a great alternative to actually pursuing jobs he wants. He added a popular “tag” to his LinkedIn profile: #OpenToWork. It didn’t work.

Then he found a better tag: #Desperate. He says that tag “blew up way bigger than I thought…[it] got about half a million views” and brought him over 1,600 followers. He’s applied to 4,500 jobs.

“But he didn’t hear from hiring managers.” He asks his LinkedIn network: “Why is it so hard to get a job?”

(The #Desperate tag seems quite popular. The WaPo reports that another job seeker “still displays it after two months, eight interviews and 500 applications.” She’s had no job offers.)

Honestly waiting to land a job

Then there’s the guy who says he’s going to lose his house if he doesn’t land a job within a month. He’s sharing his plight with his LinkedIn network as honestly as possible because he’s been “feeling invisible after hundreds of applications.” He feels that the more honest he is on his profile, the better. “I just need someone to see this that has an opening that can help me save my house.”

He’s gotten “at least 3,000 comments and messages” and two interviews because, he believes, he’s being so open and honest. But he’s gotten no job.

How much is that singing gorilla?

I’ll say what the WaPo article doesn’t bother to say.

Cut the crap, folks! The problem is that way too many job seekers have learned to avoid actually picking the right employers and actively pursuing jobs they can do to improve a company’s business. (How to do this is really not so mysterious.)

Social media sites have provided people with the company of millions of other job seekers who are “crafting” clever marketing ploys to get other social media users — and a plethora of digital go-fers — to find them a job. This is not networking. It’s wishful thinking. Read that WaPo article carefully. Not one of the clever job seekers in the story reported they found a job.

Maybe better social media tricks could get someone to bring you a new job. Or you could just hire a singing gorilla.

What tricks have you seen job seekers do to get someone else to find them a job? Have gorilla-like social media tactics really become a thing? Do any of the examples of job-hunting tactics described seem useful to you?

NOTE: The Washington Post is a subscription-based news outlet. I cannot guarantee my link to it will work.

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Question

The Technical Director quit and my manager was promoted to that position. I was promised that there would be room for promotion when I was hired, however I was just passed over for promotion. Someone else in the department has been promoted to be my manager.

I like my former manager (now the Director) and I would like to continue to work for him, and not work for this other “peer” who is now my new boss. Do you have any suggestions on how to handle this? Should I be direct with the new Director and say that I want to report to him, hint around at it, or keep my mouth shut? Should I read between the lines and start looking for another job?

Nick’s Reply

Ah, you’ve got move-over-itis. That’s when you’re told to move over because someone else is getting what you want. There’s no easy answer to this one. There are too many factors that you might not know about, and even more that I don’t know about. But move over need not mean game over.

Let me try and give you some things to consider; then you’ll have to decide how to proceed.

Passed over for promotion

Either (a) you didn’t get the job because they don’t think you can handle it (one problem), or (b) your new manager is more qualified than you are (a different problem).

Let’s pursue (a) first. Regarding the management position:

1. Do you understand the management work that needs to be done? Are you sure? Or, do your bosses have reason to suspect you don’t?
2. Are you able to demonstrate that you can do the work? Think about both the day-to-day functions of the job as well as the more strategic requirements. In what ways have you demonstrated your management skills? (Don’t say they didn’t ask you; they never will. It’s up to you.)
3. Could you do the work the way the company wants it done? This relates to style, attitude, work ethic, philosophy, and your willingness to “enlist” as a member of a team. Would you be a manager who fits, or one who doesn’t quite?
4. Could you do the work profitably for the company? That is, what would your efforts as a manager bring to the bottom line? Yep, I’m looking for an actual figure. A good manager understands costs and profitability. Your estimate might be way off, but you’ve got to be able to show that you can come up with a figure you can defend. Have you thought about that job in such detail?
5. Finally, would the job be good for you? Would it “profit” your career and your wallet? Not all technical people are management material; and not all managers are great staff members.

You might want to talk to your old boss confidentially, and ask why you were passed over. It’s a bit of a risk; but so is keeping your mouth shut, right?

Without being defensive (or upset) try to discuss each of the questions above. Listen to your former boss’s assessment. This could help you get into a better position for the next promotion opportunity.

Try again for a promotion?

Let’s go to (b). If the new manager is better at the work than you would be, the case is closed. But if you really want a management job down the road, a new case opens, and I think you really need to talk to the powers that be.

Don’t go crying sour grapes; it’s too late for that particular job. But it’s time to find out what they’re looking for in a manager. And it’s a good time to make it clear that you want management. You must be ready to justify yourself: use a business plan.

Again, your old boss could be your best ally if you approach him in a candid but professional way. It sounds like you have a good relationship with him. I’d bring it up over a casual lunch off-site. Don’t complain — learn. Let him be a dutch uncle. Ask for advice, not explanations. Then listen.

Move over yourself

Move-over-itis leaves you terribly itchy to do something. I get that. But you should consider your options carefully.

You’ve been passed over for promotion, so maybe you should move over. Your idea of seeking a job with your old manager may be a good solution. It could get you into a new domain with fresh responsibilities and with a new opportunity to demonstrate your value to the company. And, it may get you away from the new manager, whom you don’t seem to like working for. (Is that your competitive nature talking, or your disappointment, or is the manager really not worth working for?)

As you note, the final option is to start looking for another employer. In this case, I suggest you honestly assess what happened at this company. Don’t move on to a repeat experience.

All these questions, eh? I hope one or more of them lead you toward your goal (or toward a new goal).

What’s your experience with promotions? Have you ever been “bumped” by another employee who got the job instead? Is being passed over a good enough reason to move on? Is getting promoted a matter of “who you know” or is it about abilities?

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