Archive for the Q&A Category

Question

I just finished my second year working for an information technology (IT) company. It’s my first job. I have seen my interests change from the tech side of the house to the business side, and have begun pursuing an MBA. I have been looking for another job in order to go ahead and change careers and I am expecting a written offer this week from a major telecommunications corporation. The position looks to have very good potential. The only drawback is that I’ll probably have to take a salary cut.

I don’t feel I have much to bargain with, since I don’t have a related degree yet, and I have no experience in the field. It’s not a big cut, but I’m pretty bummed to be taking one at all. You just don’t expect to take a cut when switching jobs. I’m trying to get my head around this, so I’ve got a couple of questions. First, does it even make sense to take a cut?

Second, I was wondering what kind of advice you could give me on how to try negotiating a bigger package when I have no experience? Any help is much appreciated.

Nick’s Reply

Judging from recent news about tech jobs withering under the bright light of AI, you may be ahead of the curve by shifting out of tech now! I say that partly with tongue-in-cheek because it’ll be a while before we know whether this is an anomaly or a real trend.

“It’s not a big cut, but I’m pretty bummed to be taking one at all. You just don’t expect to take a cut when switching jobs.”

But, you’re not just changing jobs. You’re changing careers. While many career changers report increases in salary, that depends enormously on how big a disparity there is in required skills between these careers. You should of course negotiate the best salary you can, but you’re wise to consider your lack of a relevant degree and experience. Depending on the exact nature of your career shift, you may need to prepare yourself to pay a price at least in the short term.

So let’s tackle your first question: don’t view this as a cost, but as an investment.

Salary Cut: Up and down a tree

There’s an analogy I like. You’re climbing a tree, following a particular branch upward. Then you realize you’re going up the wrong branch. The only way to change direction is to move down so you can start back up the correct branch. That’s the cut in pay, and it will indeed slow your income down. For a while. As you start back up the right branch (the business career) and gain momentum, you should be fine.

Here’s the kicker in this analogy: the farther up the wrong branch you go (and the higher you and your salary rise), the farther back down you’ll have to go (in height and salary) before you can start back up.

A salary cut can be a wise investment

If you believe your value in the new career will require time to catch up as you acquire new skills and come up to speed, you’re smart to make the change now. It’s conceivable that once you reach a certain point in your IT career, your salary may be so high that it’s going to cost you a lot to make the shift.

You’re not losing salary. You’re investing in change. When you invest in a stock, you’re out short-term cash. But if you invest wisely, the returns should more than pay you back. I wouldn’t worry too much about the dip you’re about to take in salary; focus instead on doing so well at your new job that your value becomes quickly reflected in your first and second raises. It’s important to discuss with the new employer how long this might take.

I don’t like to see anyone take a salary cut unless they’re getting something for it. You will have to assess the value of this job to your career and perhaps amortize the cost over time. Be brutally honest with yourself: can this career change pay off in the long run?

Your second question is how to negotiate a deal without a salary cut despite your lack of experience and credentials. I think you’ll find some helpful ideas about that in Can I change careers without a salary cut? For a more extensive discussion on this topic please see How Can I Change Careers? Congratulations on getting to the offer stage!

Have you ever taken a salary cut to get ahead in your career? How did it turn out? How would you advise this reader? What are the risks in taking a cut, and how can you mitigate them?

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Question

I interviewed for a position at a manufacturing plant and had an excellent rapport with the CEO who interviewed me. The location of the company is not exactly what I’m looking for. The area is quite depressed but the job is just what I’m looking for. In terms of sales and size of staff, it would be a next step in my career. But I need help with a low salary offer.

The salary is 20% less than my last position. I have been unemployed for two weeks, am in my early 50’s, and did not complete my degree. This has not been a problem for me in previous positions.

The CEO asked me to think about it over the weekend and call him next week if I have any ideas that could bring us closer to an agreement as salary is the only barrier to a job offer. He asked that I don’t accept the position unless I could be happy for the long haul.

I really would appreciate your advice. Forget to mention that I work in finance and the position is for a plant controller.

Nick’s Reply

You’re dealing with a smart CEO. He sounds open to discussing what kind of terms (other than salary) you’re going to be happy with.

First you have to decide whether the location is a deal-breaker for you. Don’t let that come back to plague you as you negotiate other aspects of this deal.

Talk about a low salary offer in person

Regarding the money, I’d open a discussion with him. Don’t play a negotiating game, sea-sawing between his number and yours. Be honest and direct. But here’s what I think is crucial: do it in person, not on the phone. This is important, and you’ll have more bargaining power if you’re sitting with him. Your physical presence will remind him of the commitment he’s already made to you and it will reveal how serious you are about wanting the job if the terms can be worked out.

Let him know the comp is 20% lower than you’ve been making. Also let him know that you respect limits he’s got in his budget, and that otherwise this is a dream job for you.

Can you compensate for low salary?

This is where you need to start a dialogue about the terms. Find out how he might make up part of the 20% salary difference with a starting bonus, performance bonus, profit-sharing, stock, extra PTO and vacation time, flex hours or remote work, commuter benefits, gym memberships, and other perks.

Also discuss how long down the road you might be able to get back up to par, assuming you weren’t “overpaid” at your last job.

Justify higher pay

If you want to try to boost the salary, don’t just ask for more! Justify what you’re asking for.

Base your discussion of compensation over the long term on how you think you can contribute to the company’s profitability. (He’ll love your concern for his success.) Show the CEO how you’re going to pay for your own raise though your productivity. Talk dollars — and talk about the measurable differences you can make to the business.

This will take some figuring on your part, but I’ll bet if you can help analyze the bottom-line improvement you’ll be able to make over, say, a year or two, he might be willing to build some performance incentives or guaranteed salary increases into your comp package.

Don’t take a stand; discuss options

Don’t “make a counter-offer.” Have a back-and-forth. For example, “What are some performance milestones for the job? How do you view bonuses based on meeting targets?” and “Would you consider an accelerated performance review schedule?” Make it clear you’re hoping to fashion a custom deal that will pay off for both you and the company.

One caution: there’s a difference between getting a higher salary and getting incentives. One affects your base and one doesn’t. Salary affects other things, like life insurance benefits, pension contributions, etc. If you work out a “future increase” deal, make sure the criteria are simple, clear, easy to measure objectively, and in writing.

Get past a low salary offer and get to a win-win

I think you have someone here who’s willing to play ball, if you do the work to come up with some options that are honestly good for both of you. You may even get him to a higher salary! But realize that he really may face limits on what he can spend and that you probably won’t be able to get much more salary. But his indication that your long-term happiness is important suggests he sees you there for the long term. So think and plan for the long term, and help him do so, too.

Negotiating a low salary offer doesn’t have to be done across an adversarial table. You can sit down and hash through a deal like partners, with the objective a win for both of you. “We’re going to be married, essentially, if I take this job. So let’s sit down like a married couple and work out a budget — my salary and your profitability — that we’re both going to be happy with years down the road.” That might sound overly candid, but I don’t think there’s enough friendly candor in the world of business. If you can turn the “negotiation” into a discussion, you’ll change the interview into a working meeting.

Use your best judgment, but work with the CEO on this. Learn what he needs and help him to work with you by justifying the compensation package you’re discussing. I wish you the best!

See also Can’t negotiate a higher salary? Ask for more money.

Can this job opportunity be salvaged? How have you dealt with a low job offer? Is there a difference between “negotiating” salary and candidly discussing options? What would you do in this situation?

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Question

I am 20 years old and going into my senior year of college shortly. I’ll be facing a tough job market. I am looking to work in the finance and investments industry next year and am trying to get as prepared as I can for one of the biggest decisions in my life.

All of the major financial services companies that I am looking at possibly working for have these large recruitment fairs, and almost none of them are coming to my school. (I go to a small private liberal arts college.) What am I to do?

It seems like all of the new hires out of college go through the same process of getting hired through Human Resources. (I am almost finished reading your book and I understand why you suggest avoiding HR and going instead to hiring managers.) It almost seems like I can’t escape the traditional hiring process as a new kid on the block. Any advice? Thanks.

P.S. I have had a couple of internships with local financial planners who have contacts deep within the big investment firms, and they have written me recommendations, but where do I go with this?

Nick’s Reply

It’s good to have letters of recommendation from the financial planners (FPs) you interned for, but what you really need are introductions. Ask those FPs to make a few calls to get you in the door. Alternately, ask them to get you some so-called “informational interviews” where you can ask some questions and meet the people you might be working for next. (For more about this, see How to Say It: Informational (gag!) Interviews.) Personal referrals like this are the coin of the realm.

In a tough job market, get in the right door

Another way to do this is to check your college’s alumni rolls for help getting in the door without first passing through HR. Find out which alumni work in finance and investments, call them up, and ask for advice and insight about the company they work for. Do not ask for job leads; that may turn them off. People love to give advice, especially to students at their alma maters, but they hate being burdened with requests to “submit my resume for me.”

So, talk shop with them. Explain that you have not started your job search yet and that you want to educate yourself about companies before you make job applications. Ask what they like and don’t like about their work, and how they advise you to prepare yourself in a tough job market. Most important, ask them if they’d be so kind as to refer you to a manager or two at their company, so you can “continue learning about the business.”

Get mentored past the HR department

I find that alumni tend to have a soft spot for students at their former schools. These are the people who can get you in the door ahead of the job fair recruits — and past the HR department. Just as important, when you finally get interviews, these same mentors can coach you on how to handle those meetings.

That’s how to bypass HR and get an insider’s edge on a job.

(Don’t make the mistake of relying on LinkedIn profiles to search for people that went to your school and work in a relevant company. As a rule attempts to use LinkedIn to get help are ignored by LinkedIn members.)

The problem with colleges and careers

Unfortunately, most colleges do a very poor job at helping students and grads with their careers. “Career offices” offer a rote system that’s not much better than handing you job listings and telling you to apply. The “resume help” and “interview advice” they provide is available at virtually any library.

College career offices should be creating a career component to every single course you take during your four years. While I have no beef with the idea that the purpose of college is to educate you broadly — not to deliver vocational training — I think it’s disingenuous of colleges to suggest that they bear little or no responsibility for getting you started on a good career. For the $50,000-$175,000-plus that you and your parents are investing in a degree, your school should be working much harder to ensure you graduate with a job. (See Colleges fail ‘How’.)

The alumni key to getting new grads in the door

The unemployment rate for recent college grads is between 5.8%-6.6%, the worst in a decade. Every school should ensure that every graduate leaves with a job by actively engaging alumni help to get those grads in the door. If the grads can’t get a job, the school and its alumni network have failed.

Alumni are key to the success of the newest alumni. The best donation alumni can make to their alma mater is career mentoring for the newest grads who will in turn become the newest donors! (I’m a big fan of “education for its own sake,” but I’m a bigger fan of return on education investment.)  We’d see a quick shift in the relationship between colleges and the business world — but that’s another discussion.

Invest your time in developing personal contacts, and leverage your college to do it through alumni who can help you. I wish you the best.

How could you help a new college grad get their first job in a tough job market? Are there ways around the cattle-call “job fairs” and “recruiting days” where employers do little more than tell students to “apply online”? What more could colleges do to launch their graduates?

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Question

I recently hired the best employee I’ve ever had. Was catching up with an old friend and he told me about someone he ran into at a conference, said she should be on my team. I contacted her but she wasn’t looking and declined a job interview. But I kept at it as politely as I could. Finally she agreed to meet with me and one of my key staffers who is an expert in the field. Frankly, I don’t think she would have done the meeting without him. I learned something: there really are unicorns out there! But they’re not looking for us. The so-called passive job hunter will never see your job posting. So I’ve been reading about how to find these unicorns. It’s all silly tricks. Here are a few from SHRM: do a blog about professional topics, ask around (!), or start an employee referral program. And this genius advice: Make your job application form easy to fill out! (How’d you even get them to look at it?) Who writes this stuff? Is there a method or did I just get lucky?

Nick’s Reply

The holy grail of the employment industry is the passive job hunter. That’s the rare candidate everyone wants to hire.

Attracting the passive job hunter

You know: the top-of-the-class expert who is so successful she doesn’t need to look for a job. She’s happy doing the one she’s got and stays happily hidden.

The challenge, the employment industry tells us, is to attract that person to your website and get her to fill out a form so she can be notified when a great job comes along. Yah, right. Why would she fill out a form if she doesn’t need or want your help finding a job?

The answer to your question is in what you already said. See if you can figure out what I’m referring to.

Passive job hunter or passive employer?

I’ve got an epiphany for you about “passive”. Who’s passive is the employer, not the job hunter. Most employers are lousy recruiters because they’re entirely passive about the way they try to hire good people – whether the people they want are actively job hunting or “hiding.”

Employers sit on their duffs, waiting for “the websites” to deliver. They’re as passive as lottery players, waiting for their numbers to come up. And SHRM? The association of HR managers? They fully support the ATS lottery system: buy more numbers and one might be a winner!

Now I’ve got some news for you: passive job hunters don’t need you. They can get an interview or a job almost anywhere they want, any time they want. If anyone needs to get active, it’s you — the manager. Congrats on hiring your best worker, but if you want to do it again, get out there and meet the best people in your business. Go to them. Do it in person. Talk to them. Get to know them.

Activities of passive job hunters

You’ll find them at professional conferences. No, not filling out applications at the career booths. The best people are up at the podium, either delivering presentations and showing off their talents or talking shop with the speakers.

You’ll find them in training classes beefing up their highly desirable skills. You’ll find them online leading active discussions on Reddit or Stack Overflow, talking shop with one another. And guess what? They don’t want to talk about hot job postings. They want to talk about their work.

So, get off your duff and get out of your office. The answer isn’t passive job hunters; it’s active managers. The answer is what your buddy does: goes out and “runs into” the best in the field!

(Oops. Forgot. Managers are too busy running important businesses to go find and interact with the best workers out there. Never mind…)

If you’re a hiring manager or an HR manager, how do you find your best candidates? Do you wait for them to come along in the ATS or do you hit the road and search in-person? If you’re a passive job hunter, how do you pick your jobs? How do you avoid being bothered by solicitations you don’t want or need?

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Question

I am a degreed accountant and a mom who has taken off a few years to raise the kids. I haven’t been idle, but my resume isn’t getting me anywhere at all. I worked as an accountant for almost 8 years, and I have continued to do tax returns each year for people and small businesses I know. In addition, I’ve done a lot of work helping small companies collect on delinquent accounts, sort of as a part-time job. I am technology-literate and would make someone a great employee since my kids are well into their school years. Is there a job for Mom out there? How do I get my foot in the door?

I’d be willing to work temp or temp-to-hire if necessary. Any advice you have for me would be appreciated. I knew it would be hard, but I thought I’d at least get some interviews!

Nick’s Reply

Don’t limit yourself to looking for jobs with employers that routinely ignore anyone that’s been out of the commercial work world for years — especially if you’re an older (over 30? over 40? over 50?) woman. The job market is rife with companies that will reject you for any of that.

I know you’re asking me how to get a job — and we’ll get to that.

A job for Mom – or work for Mom?

But first, go out on a limb and consider that you have a lot of skills that you could also use to start your own small business and hire yourself out to other firms. In other words, your search for a job turns into a search for work. This is a great way to get in the door without asking for a regular job for which there will be a lot of competition.

Think about this. Accounting can be a job, but helping small businesses with delinquent accounts? That’s a service — work you can offer to almost any business that needs to do collections. In fact, why not suggest to some local accounting firms that you will handle delinquent accounts for their clients on a contract basis? You become a specialist — a specialist these accounting firms can provide to clients that need the help. Nobody needs to “hire” you as an employee and you don’t need to compete with all those resumes.

Get a job for Mom with a foot in the door

You could charge by the day or by the account. (I’m not a fan of billing for professional B-to-B services by the hour. It encourages nickel-and-diming.) By helping a firm build its business in dealing with delinquencies — without having to hire you as an employee — you position yourself as an insider who will be wired for a regular job when it opens up.

I believe this also helps you get around biases against women and moms because there’s no fixed overhead cost of a salary and benefits, or a long-term commitment from the employer. Of course, if you’re really good at your work your client won’t ever want to let you go despite any biases it may have. (Funny how delivering top-notch work clears up pesky bad attitudes and preconceptions!)

Undoubtedly, you’re talented in other areas of accounting as well. Offer your services as an adjunct to what these firms do already. That will help you get a foot in the door.

Start a business or get the inside track on a job?

What about your current tax-prep clients? Do any own businesses? Can they use more of your services? These people can also be great sources of contacts if you let them know you’re building your client list. What other businesses can they introduce you to? Find out what challenges these potential clients face, then approach them with specific ideas and solutions.

I know — I’m focusing on starting your own business. Your expertise lends itself well to that. Take advantage of it. Join your local chamber of commerce. You’ll be amazed at the contacts you will make.

But if a regular job for Mom is what you really want, using the “start your own business” approach can lead you to employment without all the job-posting, resume, and interview rigmarole. If you do just half of what I’ve suggested toward finding clients, you will have already started on a job hunt. Don’t count too much on the resume. Count on people you do business with. That’s where real interviews come from.

I wish you the best.

What’s up with employers that think moms make poor hires? A woman doesn’t trade her brain to have kids! Are you a mom who’s gotten a job again? How did you pull it off? What are the obstacles? What do you say to employers who act like moms aren’t worth hiring?

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Question

I try to keep my head down and not stress too much while looking for a new job. But there’s no avoiding the really weird news reports. For example, what do you think about articles like these that suggest my job search is in trouble?

Fake Job Postings Are Becoming a Real Problem
One in five jobs advertised is fake or not filled, according to a new analysis; ‘more soul-crushing than ever’

Employers Are Buried in A.I.-Generated Résumés
Candidates are frustrated. Employers are overwhelmed. The problem? An untenable pile of applications — many of them generated with the help of A.I. tools.

And one about how somebody now has an app that helps you cheat on job interviews. It all seems so unprofessional and un-business-like. Are these stories just click-bait? Has job hunting, recruiting and hiring become a clusterf@ck: “a complete failure or very serious problem in which many mistakes or problems happen at the same time”?

Nick’s Reply

Yes. Taken as a whole, what I call the Employment System — job hunting and hiring — is an epic traffic pile-up. I pity job seekers and hiring managers alike.

Are these reports merely alarmist click-bait? If they are, then every reader’s comment on this entire website is, too. There is no end of revelations by job seekers and employers about this broken system.

I’ve seen some of the articles you refer to, and more. They’re easy to find. (You didn’t provide links but I’ve added them so others can check them out. I also added the subtitles.) While some of these articles are behind pay walls (e.g., New York Times, Wall Street Journal), I think for our purposes just reading the titles is enough to start a discussion!

Here are a couple more recent news articles that got my attention.

• The Summer Job, a Rite of Passage for Teens, May Be Fading Away
  As businesses face economic uncertainty, seasonal work is harder to find, pushing the unemployment rate for teenagers above 13 percent.
• Millions of Résumés Never Make It Past the Bots. One Man Is Trying to Find Out Why.
  After more than 100 unsuccessful job applications, Derek Mobley sued software firm Workday for discrimination, claiming its algorithm screened him out.

These articles don’t begin to reveal the enormity of the pile-up catastrophe that is the Employment System. The clusterf@ck.

Other than confirm your suspicion that things aren’t good in the Employment System, I’m not going to comment on the particulars. I think I rail about these issues often enough!

Instead, I want to hear what Ask The Headhunter readers have to say.

• Do you believe what you’re reading about the job market in articles such as these?
• What extraordinary news reports have you seen that seriously concern you? (I’d be happy to add them to this column if you provide links.)
• What are your thoughts and experiences regarding the obstacles that articles like these reveal?
• Is the Employment System really a clusterf@ck as the original poster suggests?
• What signs of hope for a better system of job hunting and hiring do you see? Someone must be doing it right!

Please don’t hold back! Tell us what you see and what you think about the system that drives job hunting, recruiting and hiring — and tell us what you’re doing about it.

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Question

I’m being shrunk (I mean “downsized”) at the end of the month. I have an exit interview scheduled before then. Any recommendations on what to say and what not to say during the interview? What’s the purpose of exit interviews in these situations anyway? Thanks.

Nick’s Reply

Shrunk, downsized, booted, fired, let go… pick a euphemism. The purpose of the exit interview is twofold (I’m sure some HR experts could come up with more). One, to help a genuinely interested company learn from your experience. Two, to protect the company from legal repercussions after you depart.

Stay out of exit interviews and stay out of trouble

I have never viewed exit interviews as anything but rote, senseless, useless — and risky. They tend to be conducted more for the second reason than the first.

My objective is more to keep you out of trouble than to help you be a company’s good buddy. Some may take issue with this, but my advice is to be polite, say as little as possible and get it over with. Better yet, politely but firmly decline the meeting altogether. You can part professionally and responsibly without the post mortem of an exit interview.

Little upside, lots of risk

You should of course follow your good judgment if you want to do that interview. But there’s nothing necessary about it.

There is not much upside for you in doing an exit interview. Sometimes a company will dangle an incentive like a gift card, free career counseling or quicker settling of what they owe you. They cannot withhold pay. Of course, some will tell you that your “feedback” will benefit other employees.

There can be significant risks in sitting for the meeting. If you’re critical or emotional, the company could retaliate if it is ever asked for references. If your comments are glowing and you wind up having to unexpectedly take legal action about your termination, your positive comments could be used to undermine your case. Because there’s nothing confidential about that meeting, HR could share your comments with your boss and other employees, which could cause unwanted tension.

Exit interviews are always too late

Don’t complain, don’t explain. You’re not going to help the company fix its problems or faults at this juncture. If what you think really mattered, the company would have asked your opinion long ago. And, if they were really willing to use your comments to good effect — and for your benefit! — you might not be leaving.

Bottom line: It’s a little late to be talking about your employment experience. If you want to offer anyone at the company your advice or comments, do it informally, privately and off the record.

Use your judgment. But, don’t use the exit interview to vent, and don’t assume you have any obligation. That’s my two bits. For more on this topic, please refer to Parting Company: How to leave your job.

I wish you the best on your next job.

What’s your experience with exit interviews? What benefits have you experienced? Problems?

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Question

I found a position listing with Company A, where I interviewed a couple of years ago. Back then, it was a contract job, but the interview with the hiring manager went very well. Then the job was cancelled due to funding constraints. Too bad, because I really hit it off with the manager. So I moved on to Company B where I accepted an offer for a permanent position.

Fast forward two years. Company A again has a position, but it’s permanent this time. Great, I think, so I contacted Ms. Hiring Manager. She remembered me and said she would be very glad to talk with me again, as I definitely have the skills they are looking for. So far so good, right? She says she will have someone call me to set up a time for an in-person interview.

Company A’s HR person called in the middle of the work day. Here’s how it went:

“Hi, this is [Ms. HR] from Company A. Is this a good time?”

“Uh, sure,” I say as I leap from my desk to go somewhere I can talk to her, expecting a quick conversation to make an appointment with Ms. Hiring Manager.

Ms. HR: “I want to make an appointment for you to come in and talk with Ms. Hiring Manager.”

“Great,” I say, “When would be a good time be for Ms. Hiring Manager and me to meet?”

Ms. HR says, “Well, first I need to be sure you are qualified for the position.”

Me: “Huh? I already spoke with Ms. Hiring Manager yesterday about the position, and she said you would call and make an appointment for us.”

Ms. HR  “Well, I don’t want to waste Ms. Hiring Manager’s time.”

(Me, silently, “Wha…? Okaayyy.”)

Ms. HR: “I see you applied for a contract position with us before.”

Me: “Yes, I did. That’s why I contacted Ms. Hiring Manager when I saw that a permanent position was open in her department.”

Ms. HR <snarky tone>: “Well, are you ready to make a commitment to a permanent position since you applied for a contract position last time? We want someone who will stay with us and make a commitment!”

Me: “Umm, wasn’t the position I was talking with Ms. Hiring Manager a permanent position?”

Ms. HR: “Yes, but you have had a lot of contract positions.”

Me: “My last three jobs have been permanent positions. As for the contracts, you do know what’s been going on in the IT field and the economy the last few years, right? I took the job that was available, and sometimes it was a contract.”

Ms. HR (interrupting and in a loud voice): “WE NEED TO BE SURE YOU ARE READY TO MAKE A COMMITMENT TO A JOB.”

Me: “I applied for a permanent position, so that is what I am looking for.”

Ms. HR, changing direction: “What salary do you expect for this job?”

Me: “I don’t generally discuss salary until I have a better feel for the job responsibilities and benefits.”

Ms. HR: “I need to know what you want so you are not wasting Ms. Hiring Manager’s time. We can’t bring you in here if you want TOO MUCH MONEY!”

Me: “I’d rather discuss that with the hiring manager.”

(Several back and forths about what I want, and the reasons I must tell her, that she delivers in an increasingly nasty tone of voice.)

Ms. HR (changing tactics again): “Okay, so what are you making now?”

Me: “My compensation is confidential. I don’t disclose it when I’m negotiating for a new job because it gives an employer an unfair advantage.”

Ms. HR: “In all my years in HR I have NEVER heard anyone say that! (Raises voice, in a nasty tone.) Never, never! I’ve never heard of that!”

Finally, I realize she has just sprung a phone interview on me with no warning, under the guise of scheduling a meeting, and was verbally abusing me. Whoa!?

Me: “Your company is not a good fit for me. Thank you for your time. Goodbye!”

Generally speaking I was a good candidate for the job, but the company is not a good candidate for me, if this is an indication of the culture. I really have to wonder if Ms. Hiring Manager is aware that Ms. HR is driving away the very candidates the manager wants to interview, instead of attempting to recruit them. Or does the company only want to hire people whose self-worth and self-esteem are so low that they would put up with this type of behavior?

What do I say? I really do want to let someone know. Honestly, I was so upset by the whole thing I couldn’t address it right away, because my response would have been unprintable.

So, what do I say to Ms. Hiring Manager, if anything?

Nick’s Reply

What’s glaringly missing from that HR “interview” is any discussion about your qualifications, which she emphasized from the start was the purpose of her unscheduled phone call. That tells us everything we need to know.

I’m printing your entire dialogue to demonstrate just how disconcerting and ridiculous an “HR screening phoner” can be. This is very common among employers that permit HR to run the show. It can be an enormous PR disaster in the professional communities from which a company needs to recruit.

I’d call Ms. Hiring Manager, since you already know one another, and since she directed Ms. HR to schedule a meeting. And, since you’ve already made your decision not to pursue a job there (I think this is the right call), here’s how to say it to the hiring manager who invited you in, only to let a mad dog chase you away.

How to Say It

“I enjoyed talking with you once again last week and I was looking forward to meeting to discuss the job you have open. I’m flattered that you remembered me from our interview two years ago! Unfortunately, the call I received from your HR department was very disturbing. I’m sorry to tell you this, but I believe it’s important to be frank. As a result of that call, I’m not sure I’d ever consider a position with your company. Is your board of directors aware of how your HR staff portrays your company, and how they treat job applicants?”

She will ask you what you’re talking about. Don’t get into it. Just send her the transcript you sent me, and add a note.

How to Say It

“I hope we get to meet again under better circumstances, perhaps at another company — because I’m impressed with the way you present yourself. I did not produce this transcript for you. I wrote it up for a friend. But I think you will see what I mean when you read it. I wish you the best, and I’d always be glad to talk with you in the future. I don’t consider this experience any reflection of you. Kind regards…”

The point is to rattle HR’s cage and make sure the manager is aware of a serious recruiting and public relations problem. You did the right thing shutting down Ms. HR. She was loaded for bear, and anything that moves looks like a bear to her. But let’s not forget about Ms. Hiring Manager. She needs to stay on top of her HR department or this kind of experience will continue to cost good candidates and undermine her own success.

Just ask yourself, how would the board of directors respond if they were to see this crank in action, representing her company to its professional community?

Sheesh!

Thanks for sharing! On to the next, hopefully a better one! If you hear anything back from the hiring manager, I’d love to know. Please use your judgment with my suggested How to Say It comments to the manager. Shape and change the message and words so they suit your objectives.

In your experience, how common is such HR behavior when employers are trying to recruit good hires? If you’re a hiring manager, have you seen such missteps from HR? How much of the time does this happen? Should this job seeker attempt to get an interview anyway? How should she say it to the hiring manager? If you work in HR, please tell us what gives?

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