Monthly archive for June 2024

Do you suspect that your job interviews — or your networking attempts — go nowhere because you just don’t know how to have the kind of great conversation that makes it clear you’re a great match for the job?

I’ve said it before: Nobody hires you for your “job interview skills.” Great conversation skills: That’s what we’re going to work on this week.

SPECIAL EDITION

If you’re a regular around Ask The Headhunter, or you’ve attended my presentations or workshops, you know that I believe job hunting isn’t about applying to job postings, or fine-tuning your LinkedIn profile, or even going on job interviews.

New jobs come from new friends

Finding the right job is about making new friends, because that’s where good jobs come from — other people. And to make new friends (and get the job you want ), you need to hang out with people that do the work you want to do, and you need to talk shop with them and share new experiences.

Of course, making new friends requires talking with people you don’t know (yet) and having meaningful conversations about the work they do and the work you want to do. This might be people who can lead you to a job, or a hiring manager or recruiter who can actually produce a great job offer.

So this week we’re not doing a Q&A. This special edition is about something that worries many, if not most, job seekers: their lack of great conversation skills.

Great conversation skills make great interviews

I have always contended that some of the best career-related advice and insight comes not from “career experts,” but from other content domains about relevant related topics, like the mathematics of poker. Of course, the main “career content” you probably read is the job boards. You likely devote most of your “study” time looking at thousands of postings about jobs you don’t really care about. But you already know that kind of career content isn’t likely to win you job offers.

It’s time to change all that and learn how to help the right people lead you to your next great job by learning the right way to talk with them.

Wired magazine has done us all a solid by teaching us how to talk to others in The Science of Having A Great Conversation. Or, as the author of the article puts it, “Making friends can feel daunting, but research shows there are many ways to build better connections.”

Amp up your job interview conversations

David Robson’s article is an excerpt from his new book, The Laws of Connection: The Scientific Secrets of Building a Strong Social Network. The article is chock full of research-based insights and tips for great conversation that no one can afford to miss — least of all the serious job seeker.

I’m going to summarize some of the key points Robson discusses at length. It’s up to you to read the full article.

Then, I invite you back here, to the Comments section of this column, where we can talk about how to put all this to work in your job search (or, if you’re a hiring manager, or even a recruiter, how to optimize the quality of conversation so you can fill jobs with the best people).

12 ideas for better interview results through better conversation

1.
Robson claims: “Whether we are on a first date or meeting a lifelong friend, [or in a job interview] each sentence we speak offers a new opportunity for greater connection.”

2.
“Tiny tweaks to our conversational style can bring enormous benefits.”

3.
Robson cites some famous authors who “were so keen to show off their wit and intelligence that they lacked the basic civility of listening to others.” Do you listen well enough to make a conversation go where you’d like it to go?

4.
“The simplest way of achieving this [being a better listener] is to ask more questions, yet surprisingly few people have cultivated this habit effectively.”

5.
Take a guess at what kinds of questions you might ask someone, to “demonstrate your wish to build mutual understanding and give you the chance to validate each other’s experiences.” The article offers six kinds of such questions. Try making your own list before you read the article.

6.
Want to make the interviewer so happy that they’ll be more likely to hire you? “People are acutely aware of whether they are being listened to attentively, and their perception of receiving active attention from another predicts their feelings of trust, and contributes to the well-being boost that typically comes from strong social connections. The more attentive we are to someone, the happier they feel.”

7.
“Unfortunately, many of us rely on the wrong cues to signal our interest in others. People can display their attention with nonverbal body language…” What body language do you display, and is it helping you have the kind of great conversation that can help you get hired?

8.
“…we might conclude that we should always allow our acquaintance to take center stage. This advice can be found in many influential etiquette guides…” But does that convey the right message and optimize the quality of the conversation?

9.
Time in a job interview is limited. How can you use “the fast friends procedure” to create an instant bond with the person who will decide whether you get a job offer?

10.
How many times has a “career expert” warned you not to open up personally in a job interview? “…scientists found that the amount of time someone spent in small talk about daily banalities made almost no difference… whereas deeper conversations involving the exchange of meaningful information about their circumstances and interests had a significant impact.” What kinds of personal information should you share?

11.
Should you discuss what the hiring manager already knows a lot about, or should you demonstrate that you bring something new and exciting to the table? This one completely got me! The Novelty Penalty: “a general preference to hear about familiar experiences… The informational gaps could create a feeling of distance that undermines the sense of a shared reality.” (Or what I refer to as shared experiences.)

12.
If you do need to discuss novel ideas, how can you do it successfully, to make the conversation pay off? There are good ways to increase the quality of conversation — and the odds the other person will like you — by sharing “additional information that would allow you to close the gap in understanding.”

Join us in the Comments section below

Read the article for the details, then let’s discuss.

Nobody’s going to hire you for your interviewing skills. Learn how to have the kind of great conversations that makes it clear you’re a great match for the job you want.

What kinds of conversation skills do you use to elicit advice, insights and referrals to the jobs you want? Are conversation skills and interview skills the same thing? Where does a job interview end — and a great conversation begin?

: :

Question

My husband, a manager, would like to find a good job in Washington state. We were downsized in Philadelphia, and then found work in New York, but the cost of living here is almost as bad as California. We felt that if we could get something that paid decently out in Washington, it would be better for us. We did experience several times being told by headhunters that, “The Human Resources people were really excited about getting him on board, but they just needed to get clearance from the upper management to make him a formal offer.”

I think they say this just to keep us from looking at any other jobs. This would then just drag on, and eventually turn into not hearing anything from anyone. But, I highly suspect that the headhunters are just saying that to be polite. One headhunter was honest with us and said, “If they do not make you an offer within two weeks, they are shopping around, and then you should be as well.” I sent off an e-mail to one Human Resources person, saying that we really wanted to move to the area, and wondered if he could just let us know, if there was the intent to hire, or not, so we would know where we stood. Can you help us? Can you recommend some good headhunters in Washington?

Nick’s Reply

Sorry, but I don’t recommend specific headhunters. This article has been helpful to many people: How to Screen Headhunters. Remember that headhunters don’t find jobs for people. That’s not our business. We fill positions for our client companies, and that involves searching through our networks, not responding to unsolicited resumes.

But this bit of oft-repeated advice is not why I’m publishing your question. Underlying your story is a cautionary example of crossing the line between job hunting and home life. I deal with people’s professional lives; not their relationships with their spouses. Sometimes, however, a spouse crosses that line, and the results can be disastrous. That’s why I believe your husband’s job search is going nowhere.

(This is reminiscent of another bizarre phenomenon, reported recently in The Hill: 26 percent of Gen Z applicants bringing parent to job interview: Survey.)

“We” are not looking for a job

I’m going to offer you some unsolicited advice. I’m going to be very blunt because this is something that I have seen hurt job hunters: Acute spousal interference. This is when the spouse gets too involved in the job search, to the detriment of the job candidate (the other spouse). I can see this throughout your note:

• “We were downsized”
• “We felt that if we could get something that paid decently”
• “just to keep us from looking at any other jobs”
• “One headhunter was honest with us”
• “I sent off an e-mail”
• “so we would know where we stood”
• “Can you help us?”

You were not downsized. Your husband was. We are not trying to get a job; your husband is. We are not looking at other jobs; your husband is. No headhunter ever talked with both of you or interviewed both of you. And so on. You are interfering with your husband’s job search, and with the employer’s hiring process. This is hurting your husband, and you as well.

Acute spousal interference

I think it’s wonderful when one spouse is supportive of the other’s career. But, a company is not hiring the two of you. They don’t want to hire the two of you. They want to know that the job candidate thinks independently and is not managed or hampered by a spouse.

Sometimes a spouse gets so involved in the interview process that headhunters and employers get turned off. It could be costing your husband job offers. (You are, in a way, competing with your husband.) When a headhunter or employer sees the spouse interfering this way, they worry about intrusion into the job and inappropriate influence at work from home.

I have rejected candidates because of spousal interference. It reveals a weakness on the part of the job candidate. Your husband is half the problem. He needs to respectfully ask you to back off. He is a professional who stands alone at work, without you. That’s normal and healthy.

When “we” interferes with a job search

Your references to your spouse as “we” is demeaning and unprofessional. It creates problems. There could be many reasons why your husband has been rejected; don’t let you be one of them.

Please reconsider your role in your husband’s career, and find a healthy way to be supportive. Stay out of the foreground. Let your spouse manage his job search. Do not refer to “we,” to “our job,” to “how we feel,” or say that “we got downsized.” Do not communicate on his behalf. Let your spouse do the talking. What’s discussed between the two of you is your family business, but communications with an employer must not include you.

When I’ve encountered this problem, it’s usually been a glancing one. What can I say about a spouse who is just trying to be helpful? But, your story is clear and inappropriate interference. When you took the liberty to send an e-mail to a Human Resources person to find out “where we stood,” you went so far over the line that I had to publish your story.

You are creating a risk

Compounding the problem is that you use your husband’s e-mail account when you write — his name is prominent in the address on the e-mail you sent me. I hope you now see this is a serious risk. Discuss your husband’s career with him any way the two of you see fit. But from now on leave his interactions with employers and headhunters entirely up to him. Spousal interference is likely what is hampering this job search.

I know you’re trying to help. And, I suspect, you get vicarious professional satisfaction from managing this job search. Please find something else you can manage for your own fulfillment.

Any good headhunter or employer knows that when recruiting a new hire, the spouse is a key factor — but one that we try to handle respectfully and deftly. The only time you should be in the picture is when the employer draws you in, but nowadays that’s quite rare. (For example, if a relocation is involved and the two of you need to visit the employer’s city to find a new home.) A supportive spouse is an added benefit to any employer who hires your husband. A spouse who intrudes on the job, or into discussions and negotiations with a prospective employer, is a risk.

When is it okay for one spouse to be directly involved with another’s job search? Where’s the line?

: :

Question

I head up a large sales team. Every year it’s harder and harder to attract and hire good salespeople. I’m fed up with HR’s lack of answers. HR posts our jobs on all the top websites from LinkedIn to ZipRecruiter and several specialty sites. I used to read your advice columns on Adobe’s CMO.com so I know you know something about sales. Where should we be posting jobs? What can I do to get our HR to wise up and make recruiting a priority?

Nick’s Reply

We covered a related topic last month but judging from the number of hiring managers I’ve heard from, I think it’s worth taking another whack at it.

Posting jobs doesn’t yield the best talent because the best workers expect what your customers demand: the personal touch. They don’t read job boards or respond to recruiters dialing for dollars. They want to hear from people like you — top managers who can talk shop, and who can attract exceptional workers.

That’s why — if you want to hire the best talent — you need to consider a few old recruiting rules that have never changed and that will serve you well if you follow them. The state of corporate recruiting is so bad today that I’m framing two of these rules as “do nots” simply because, before you can do this right, you have to stop doing it wrong.

Rule 1: Do not send a flunky to do your recruiting

Yes, I said a flunky. A stand-in. Don’t expect a personnel jockey from your HR department is going to impress a hard-to-get salesperson. Only you can do that.

It’s also an old rule that most jobs are found and filled through personal contacts, not by posting jobs. So, why would you take an impersonal approach to hiring while your best competitors are scarfing up the best people by making recruiting personal?

 If you want your HR department to do something useful to help speed up intelligent recruiting, assign them the task of figuring out where the best talent hangs out. Then go there and impress the talent with your motivation to reach out and attract them yourself.

Rule 2: Do not ask busy people to fill out forms

Do you launch marketing campaigns that require prospective customers to fill out five pages of online forms to qualify for a sales pitch to buy your company’s products? Of course not.

So what makes you think it’s okay for your HR department to treat sales professionals like they have to qualify to talk to you about a job? Your head of HR will explain that someone has to “screen” and “qualify” those people — that’s why they have to fill out forms and provide their experience and history.

Sheesh. Why is your HR department recruiting people whose experience and history HR doesn’t already know? Do you let your sales team chase low-probability prospects, or do you invest loads in big data analytics that tell you exactly who’s worth selling to? Why do you let your HR department post jobs that anyone can apply for? That’s not recruiting. That’s trying to drink from a fire hose.

When you identify people worth recruiting, wine and dine them like you do the customers you hope to land. Don’t ask them to fill out forms.

Rule 3: Be ready to close the deal now

When you have a high-value sales prospect in your office, someone who’s ready to buy your product after they’ve heard your pitch, do you thank them for listening — then explain that you’ll get back to them in a few weeks about closing the sale? Why do you let your HR department do that to job candidates?

This rule can actually be re-written another way: “Interview only candidates worth hiring.” It’s no different than qualifying a customer before you invest in selling to them. Of course, you know it requires a big investment to qualify customers. So, where’s your investment in real recruiting?

When you bring a job candidate into your office, you should already know whether they’re worth hiring. You should have made that investment in advance. The job board industry wants you to forget that step, because the more people you interview and the fewer you hire the more money the job boards make from you.

Before any interview, ask yourself, do I already know enough about this candidate to make a hiring decision at the end of our meeting? If not, your recruiting process is broken and you’re wasting enormous resources talking to essentially random people. Plan your recruiting so you’re ready to close the deal now.

Put down the fire hose!

This is not to say that job interviews are for making job offers every time. A job interview helps you determine whether a person is really worth hiring.

Now I’m going to blow up the unspoken rule virtually every hiring manager and HR jockey accepts and follows blindly: “Interview all the candidates then decide which to hire.” Wrong!

When an interview meeting ends, you should have the final bits of data you need to look the candidate in the face and say, “No, thank you — this won’t work out, but thanks for your time,” or, “I’m so glad we met to talk shop. I want you to work with us, so I’m going to offer you a job right now, before my best competitor snatches you up!”

I can hear the HR posse coming to torch my house. Hire on the spot? Nick, you reprobate! What about all the other candidates we got by posting jobs? But think about this carefully: You should be recruiting and interviewing only candidates that you have vetted first. Put down the fire hose! Stop posting jobs. Pursue only sales candidates that have already been highly recommended to you. Another way to think about this: check references before you decide to even approach a candidate.

Be ready at the end of any interview to do what candidates wish every manager would do: Say “REJECTED!” or “YOU’RE HIRED!”

Nothing has changed in sales and marketing or in recruiting. Know your target in advance. Pursue only high quality targets. Be ready to close a deal quickly — before our competitors get the jump on you.

It’s critical to remember that when hiring we’re not dealing in commodities. Our competitive edge is hiring only the best, and we cannot let HR do it. The basic rules have not changed: Do it yourself, respect your candidates, and be ready to hire them now.

What are hiring managers missing? Is the idea that job candidates deserve and need real attention so hard to grasp? Is the importance of “doing it in person” really lost on employers? What’s it going to take before hiring managers show respect to the people they need to hire?

: :

Question

As a new grad I think I’ve got the I can’t get a job blues! I remain unconvinced that a liberal arts major has transferable job skills in today’s job market. My experience in the workplace has been that I’m seen as overqualified and under-qualified at the same time. Is there a way for a generalist to market his or her skills in business and get out of the academic straitjacket? Thanks to all for your comments.

Nick’s Reply

The New York Times’ Peter Coy recently interviewed me for his excellent column, Why Can’t College Grads Find Jobs? Here Are Some Theories — and Fixes. (It may be pay-walled.) You’re not the only new grad that feels like you’re throwing your resumes into the void!

In my comments to Coy I emphasized that the real problem is the reductionist nature of recruiting. Employers own their hiring problems because the don’t recruit and assess people. They recruit and judge keywords! That’s why you’ve got the blues!

New grads have loads of relevant skills

The only academic straitjacket is often the new grad’s perception. It’s normal to feel at a disadvantage because you’re fresh out of school, but don’t fall prey to the idea that you’re lacking the right qualifications, or that a degree means you’re over-qualified. The ridiculous emphasis in the employment industry (job boards, ATS systems, HR) on lists of keywords and inflexible skills requirements is just that — ridiculous.

You have powerful, relevent skills that you acquired in school. The problem is, no one has shown you how to apply them to a job. Don’t expect anyone to. You have to figure it out for yourself and be ready to explain it to a hiring manager. And that means getting out of the academic mindset. You need to shake the attitude that your education is the chief determinant of success in the job hunt.

Identify your real skills

The chief determinant of your success is how you communicate and demonstrate your value. And that requires that you first understand the real requirements of any job — not the job description! It’s not possible to see the connection between your skills and a job until you first understand exactly what tasks you’d have to do in a job. (Before going any further, please read Does your job match its original job description?)

I was an English major who shifted to Psychology — and I’ll venture that I’ve used more skills that I acquired studying literature than psychology. The ability to write, in itself, is a powerful tool to use when job hunting: most people in business simply can’t write or organize information to save their lives.

Here’s your advantage: with a liberal arts degree, you possess many fundamental skills and attributes that your competition may lack:

• Writing
• Organizing ideas
• The ability to plan and execute research
• Knowledge of information retrieval systems (not just the Internet and ChatGPT but libraries, books, periodicals)
• A critical eye
• An open mind
• Good work habits
• Breadth of exposure to ideas and philosophies, and most important,
• A well-honed ability to learn what you need to in order to accomplish a task.

You sound pretty impressive, eh?

Select companies and jobs carefully — this is KEY!

Here’s your challenge: you now need to thoroughly study the business you want to work in. There is no way around this if you want to succeed. Your main obstacle is “all those jobs I can apply for”. But that’s illusory. There are no more than a few companies and jobs that are right for you. Start with companies, not jobs — just four or five of them, no more! Identify them and pursue nothing else. (See Pursue Companies, Not Jobs.)

Once you have learned enough to begin mapping your skills to the business, you will be on your way. Few businesses are so complicated that this is impossible. But few job hunters are diligent enough to do the exercise that yields the job. Few job hunters ever realize that they can choose their job targets and prepare to tackle them. You cannot do this for 100 jobs — so don’t take the job-board bait and snap at them all!

Lose the blues. Start with the basics.

The reality is that college students are at the mercy of their schools. I’ve seen precious few college “career programs” that help students apply their education to the real world. And that’s the sort of failing that should have you on the phone to the president of your school. The argument, “education is for its own sake” is a legitimate reason to go to school, but it’s a poor excuse for a school to leave you hanging when you’re done, because both masters (knowledge and work) can be served by a school that knows its graduates must be able to earn a living.

If you think you are fatally disheartened, I’ll try to show you why it’s probably not your fault — and what to do about it. Please see Why am I not getting hired?

Don’t have the blues. There’s another way to do this that works. It requires that you:

• Take off the straitjacket the employment system puts on you.
• Get to work choosing companies you really want to work for.
• Take time to study what they need help with — not those personnel-jockey-generated job descriptions!
• Figure out how the skills I referred to above enable you to do the work.
• Please check some of my other articles here on Ask The Headhunter, especially The Basics. They’ll help you get started.
• Then post additional questions in the Comments section below.

I’ll offer my advice, but you’ll get the best tips from the incredibly smart folks that make up this community.

I wish you the best.

What’s the best way for a job seeker to show an employer “this is why you need to hire me”? Is it any different for a new grad? What advice can you offer this disheartened reader?

: :