Archive for the Q&A Category

Question

I had a behavioral interview with a company that I was dying to work for. If you’ve never had one, they can be brutal. They ask questions like:

• Describe a situation in which you were able to use persuasion to successfully convince someone to see things your way.
• Describe a time when you were faced with a stressful situation that demonstrated your coping skills.
• Give me a specific example of a time when you used good judgment and logic in solving a problem.

The Human Resources (HR) woman who interviewed me was an iceberg. She stuck to the script and would not budge from it. So what’s the best way to handle heavily-scripted behavioral interviews?

Nick’s Reply

In my opinion the behavioral interview is just more HR hocus-pocus. Witness your own experience. The interviewer isn’t interested in you, but in the cleverness of your answers. Behavioral interviews are yet another excuse for not knowing how to directly assess whether a job candidate can do the job.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce blithely recommends behavioral interviews: “The goal is to assess a candidate’s potential for future success based on their past behavior.”

Say what?

“Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results”

YieldStreet shames every HR executive that defends behavioral interviews:

“The above regulatory risk warning appears on nearly all investment materials, including prospects about mutual funds, equity investments, and even alternative investments. It is so ubiquitous that even those with only a passing interest in investing are familiar with it. In fact, the phrase also applies to various fields, including finance, sports, and business in general.” [emphasis added]

I’d love for an HR expert to refute that and swear behavioral interviews are different.

HR does not understand engineering, R&D, marketing, or any other function in a company, above a cursory level. No one outside a functional area is really suited to assess a candidate’s ability to do the work. The cleverness of candidates’ answers to canned questions — “behavioral” or otherwise — is not what we’re looking for! How they do the job is. And interviewers who devote their time to thinking up clever ways to indirectly assess ability are wasting a company’s money. The behavioral interview should be a direct assessment of ability to do the work.

Where’s the behavior in a behavioral interview?

The great contradiction, lost on CEOs, stockholders, and others who foot the recruiting bill is that the “behavioral” interview has no behavior in it. It is bereft of behavior. It is all about talk. Tell me about a time… (Gee, should we be having a glass of wine in this interview right about now?) There are books that will teach you how to psych out the behavioral interview — and provide you with loads of “answers.” And that should be no surprise. Any scripted interview can be answered with scripted answers.

Just think about the magnitude of arrogance here. We’ll wire you up for a video call. We’ll show you nothing and no one in the company. We’ll ask you staged questions. We’ll record everything you say. We’ll run it through the A.I. interview analyzer (too bad we can’t get your whole body in there). And somewhere in a lab there’s a goon trying to figure out how to assess you for a job just by drawing a little blood…

Put your own behavior in the behavioral interview

If you want to cope with the behavioral interview, it’s important to think about what any interview should focus on: Behavior that demonstrates you can do the job profitably. (What a concept, eh?)

Here’s my idea of how a manager should conduct a real behavioral interview. Put the candidate in front of the work. Provide a bit of basic instruction, and let the candidate have at it. No, you can’t expect perfect performance. But the manager can observe (the behavior — remember that?), ask questions about the candidate’s performance; answer questions about the work, and discuss what the candidate is doing and thinking.

There is no way for a candidate to fake this. The only book the candidate can read to prepare for such an interview is one about the work: engineering, marketing, jamming the frammitz, or whatever. It can’t be faked. In the end, the manager judges the candidate’s ability to learn the work and to do the work. Coincidentally, this is how a manager evaluates employees — on their performance, not on double-talk.

I call this The Working Interview. Is it a perfect solution? Maybe not, but give me an engineer for an hour, and I’ll teach her how to interview another engineer better than any personnel jockey could with 50 psychologists backing her up.

Have a real interview with a real hiring manager

Okay, okay. So how should you deal with the behavioral interview? The only sensible strategy is to ensure that you’re going to interview with the hiring manager — not surrogates. Few candidates realize that they can insist on interviewing only with the manager. (Why waste your time with anyone else?) Please see How to get to the hiring manager. Politely answer the manager’s questions, and emphasize that you’d like a few minutes during your meeting to demonstrate your plan for doing the job profitably.

How to Say It
“I’m here to do a real behavioral interview. I’m here to show you — not just talk about — how I will do the job. Can we move out to your work area?”

A savvy manager will bail you out of the “interview laboratory” if you offer to do the job during your interview. But it takes brass — and lots of preparation — to ask for the opportunity. But there’s no magic involved.

Have you ever been asked to do a behavioral interview? How did you handle it? Did it help you get the job? If you’re a hiring manager or an HR manager, what’s your take on the behavioral interview? Can it predict the future?

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Question

I need to hire someone with some specialized skills that my team does not currently possess (a cross between a business analyst and a project manager). I have interviewed several people in my company who do the sorts of things I think I need. They are not available to assist, as they are already booked on other projects, but are willing to talk about what they do, how it benefits the company, what their credentials are, and so on. I even have the hiring slot available.

Now for the tough stuff. I have basically cobbled together a fictional position description to satisfy the Human Resources Department and posted the position internally. First, how do I determine what questions to ask potential candidates, since I am looking for skills neither I nor my team know much about? Second, how do I guide the successful applicant into a working slot that we are basically making up as we go along?

Nick’s Reply

That’s a good one. How do you select a person to do a job you haven’t defined which requires skills you don’t understand?

Beware the broken job

I applaud your honesty. Many managers try to fill jobs like that while pretending they know exactly what they’re doing. I call this a broken job.

• There’s no clear, objective definition of the work or the desired outcome.
• There’s no clear, objective measurement of performance.
• The manager is throwing bodies at a problem the manager doesn’t really understand.
• The manager desperately needs to have a short-term task done, but can’t specify what the job will entail afterward.

This is where honesty, candor and a willingness to break the rules will be more helpful than ten HR managers and a highly polished job description.

Do you need an employee or a consultant?

My first step in a situation like this would be to forget about the job description. You don’t really have one — except to appease HR — and you don’t really want one. It could lead you terribly astray. If you don’t know what you need, you’ll wind up hiring the wrong person to do it, and you’ll fire them for doing it poorly!

Step back and get a handle on what it is you’re managing. Are you managing an ongoing function or an outcome? This will help you figure out whether you really need to hire an employee to perform the function, or to contract with another department or consultant to manage the process that will yield the outcome you need.

Pick one or two people on your team to work with you on this “development” project. Then, break the rules. Don’t fill the position — not yet. Rent some help instead.

Get help

Invite a few consultants to come talk with you about the deliverable you’re trying to produce. (Alternately, arrange to have one of those internal experts visit with you. Maybe you can arrange for a part-time assignment, or a series of nice dinners where they can eat and teach.) Pay each of these consultants to show you what the deliverable is and how it’s produced. This should not take a lot of time or cost a lot of money. Using more than one consultant will help you triangulate on the truth you seek. Having a couple of team members work with you will keep you honest and avoid tunnel vision.

Finally, hire the best of the consultants to help you define the process (that is, the job), and to help you establish metrics for performance. This will take longer and cost a bit more, but it will cost less than hiring the wrong full-time employee from the get-go. As a manager, your first objective is to understand the work, not to get the job done.

Don’t set yourself up for failure

Once you’ve got a handle on what the work is all about, how it’s done, and how to measure performance, you can decide whether you need to hire someone, or subcontract the work to another department or assign the whole thing to a qualified consultant. You probably don’t need to be able to do the work yourself; you just need to “get it”.

You can even have the consultant help you recruit, guide a new hire into the job, and do some training. (HR might have a bird when you suggest this. Be ready to squawk back.)

Just remember: ultimately, the person responsible for the hire and the job function is you, not the consultant (or HR). If by this point you’re still not confident about managing this kind of job function, you need to seriously consider subcontracting it or assigning it to another department that can handle it. Don’t set yourself up for failure.

Beware the job description

Companies often waste their money on consultants. But, I believe this is a situation made for a consultant — an expert whose help you can apply over a finite period of time at a finite cost to improve your own ability to do your own job as a manager more profitably. Don’t be afraid to go into learning mode with a consultant. Admit what you don’t know and ask questions. Ask to be taught. Have the right attitude, and you will soon develop the knowledge you need to move ahead and tackle the challenge you face.

Job hunters take note. This honest manager has provided us with an important lesson; a secret about hiring. The job description on file down in the HR department might be a sham; nothing but a place-holder for a position that no one understands. What does that tell you about job descriptions? They’re often perfunctory, designed to satisfy bureaucracy’s hunger for paper; not to help you prepare for a job interview. To get the real scoop on a job, go talk to the manager and the manager’s team.

Ever apply for, or try to fill, a broken job — a job you don’t understand? Why does this happen? How can it be avoided? How should this manager proceed? There’s a whole other angle on this that I didn’t even touch on — what is it?

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Question

I have a new job lined up, so I am getting things in place to give notice at my current job.  My primary concern is bad references from this employer. The owner is extremely unprofessional, resulting in a dysfunctional work atmosphere. When I share examples of what happens at work with friends, it’s embarrassing to say them out loud. They are passive aggressive behaviors that you often need to witness and experience to understand. Given what is directed towards me in the office, and the phone conversations I have overheard when employers have called for references on former employees, I do not trust that I can use this person as a reference. Do you have a suggestion for how to objectively assess the risk of using this type of employment situation as a reference (the alternative being a 16 month hole on my resume)? And how much notice do I give in this situation? I feel trapped and want to minimize the ongoing negative impact of this employer. Thanks for your insight!

Nick’s Reply

It’s not at all uncommon for smart people to rationalize – and I think that’s what you’re doing. You make it clear what kind of person you’re working for. Why would you expect a useful reference from the owner, or even risk using this person as a reference? I think you know the answer to your own questions. I’m happy to tell you I think you’re right.

Balance bad references with more good references

References don’t have to be current or former bosses. There’s no hole in your references if you substitute others – co-workers and other managers in the company that you trust, and vendors, customers and others that think highly of you and your work. I’ve seen many cases where a job candidate had to explain (briefly – always make this brief) that their last boss was not someone of the highest integrity.

If your other good references from the company are candid with whoever is checking your references, they may acknowledge that your old boss is venomous and may give undeserved bad references.

The classic career advice in this situation is to just avoid listing your boss as a reference by saying it could cost you your job. But what if the new employer gives you an offer that you accept, and then asks to talk with your boss?

Put bad references in context

I find that candor can be the best solution to this problem. But I caution you – do not dwell on this when you explain to a new employer. Be brief. Don’t complain. Don’t explain. Don’t tell the story – keep it short.

Everyone knows there are some bad people out there. Your goal is to put them in context. If the new employer must talk with your boss, suggest they also talk with other people at work who (a) know and respect you, and (b) people that will put your ex-boss’s questionable comments in context.

I think that’s most of what you need to know. But if you feel you need more detailed help with your transition, see Parting Company: How to leave your job.

Don’t get stuck fearing the consequences of leaving – that’s a good way to get hurt. If you’re good at your work and have other good references who will speak up for you, move on.

As for how much notice to give, let that be determined by how difficult your boss makes your departure.

I wish you the best.

Has your boss ever given you bad references? What was the outcome? How have you avoided listing references you were worried about? Has an employer ever checked references behind your back, with people you didn’t tell them to contact?

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Question

I am a fan and am so glad I’ve followed your advice to not do an exit interview. I started working at a medical start-up two years ago as a nurse. I loved the job and the team and felt passionate about the work I was doing. Then the medical director lost the office manager and mismanaged things to the point that pay checks have been erratic. We are behind seven pay checks from last year and a handful from this year. The team is leaving and now it’s unsafe with the skeleton crew.

I have secured another job. Part of me feels that, as the only nurse, I have to give a good chunk of notice. One month is professional notice in my field. But, seeing as I haven’t been paid and it’s unlikely I’ll recoup any of the money owed to me once I leave without legal action, I don’t want to lose any more pay. The longer I stay, the more liability I hold. How much notice would you recommend that I give in this type of situation? Thank you in advance.

Nick’s Reply

I don’t normally reply to questions by e-mail, but I’m making an exception because I’ve got a soft spot for nurses (you’re more important to patients than doctors!) and your problem is an emergency. I also have a thing about employers who don’t meet payroll.

Paying employees is not optional

Your employer may already be in a lot of trouble. You will find some good resources at Workplace Fairness. Here is one useful tip from that website:

“Many states have laws that require employers to pay employees for all hours worked, and which require employers to pay employees at regular intervals, such as biweekly or semimonthly. These laws may impose penalties on employers who do not comply with the law, and may even provide for criminal prosecution.”

Please: Contact your state’s department of labor and employment immediately for guidance.

If employer hasn’t paid, see a lawyer

Given how much you are owed, you might want to consult a good labor attorney to protect your interests. An initial consultation need not cost much if anything. For a few extra bucks, the lawyer could write a demand letter and get you paid before the employer gets sued by creditors.

You must use your own judgment (and legal advice if you pursue it), but if I were owed seven paychecks, I’d be gone with a simple notice that I am resigning effective immediately because I have not been paid. I would not work one more hour. (See Giving notice when you resign: 6 ways to avoid trouble.) But first, check with your state’s labor office and/or a lawyer. You are being taken advantage of and that’s unforgivable.

Please let me know how this turns out. I admire your dedication and integrity — but don’t be played for a fool by an unscrupulous employer. You’re not being unprofessional; they are!

For more about how to leave a job, please see Parting Company: How to leave your job. I’m glad my advice about exit interviews proved helpful to you!

Reader’s Follow-up

Thank you for the response. It really helped to give me courage to get the heck out of there. I gave two weeks’ notice which I know I did not owe them. I felt some loyalty to some of our repeat patients. But I ended up not working all of my notice and e-mailing that I was no longer coming in and that I wouldn’t let my investment in my patients be leveraged against me to put my license and pay at risk.

Other employees and I have reported the owner to the labor board and legal action has started. I’m currently enjoying a stress-free two weeks before starting a more stable job. Thank you!

Dear Readers: Has your employer ever withheld your pay? What did you do about it? Does this reader owe any notice to the employer?

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Question

I have not been back to your forum in about a year or more, since you advised me to move on after I lost my job as a manager with a utility company after over 17 years. At that time I was very unhappy, depressed, and told you I wanted to go back. (They had offered me a job in the same company doing things I did ten years before.) You said, “Move on. Take your skills and give them to people who care.”

Well, I went to work for a general contracting company as a project manager. At that time I could not see past my own self-pity and thought I had made the worst move of my life. I must say it was the best move I ever made.

When I started, I knew nothing. But if you believe in yourself you can accomplish great things. Now I run multi-million dollar projects and I am a player within the group, providing advice and input. What I am saying is that this small company appreciates my efforts more than any large corporation would. I make more money then I ever did (40% more) and enjoy the true meaning of the free enterprise system (what it takes to make a dollar and hold onto it).

One final thing I would like to say to people is, believe in yourself. There are great small companies out there that will appreciate you more than a corporation. Don’t be afraid. Risks take people to new levels of who they are and what they can do and learn. Complacency breeds death in a person.

(People in my old company are still dying — it’s the golden handcuffs that keep them there). No matter who you work for, set realistic goals for what you want to accomplish. Evaluate the time you’ve spent and money you’ve earned. And if your employer can’t see your drive or contributions, then someone else will.

Thanks again, Nick! Life is great again, as it should be, for it’s too short.

Nick’s Reply

You just made my day. I love success stories, and yours is a special one. It’s the kind that teaches others they can change their lives, even when they’ve reached the end of their rope. I hope others take heart from your experience, and that they pause to remember that change requires risk.

Change is difficult, and the first step seems impossibly high, especially when you’ve got 17 years of history with a company tied around your ankles. It’s hard to move. I congratulate you, and I am very happy for you. You’re welcome. If anything I said helped you make the change you needed to, I’m glad.

Your story comprises both the Q and the A in this column. All I’d like to add is a little more perspective, in the form of two sage quotations that help keep me sane. I keep them taped to my computer display. One is from Marcus Aurelius: “The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are.”

The other is from Henri Amiel: “To be always ready, a man must be able to cut a knot, for everything cannot be untied.”

See the truth, and act. We all learn it from someone. If I can ask you for a favor in return, it’s this: When you next encounter someone who is down and out and needs encouragement and support, do what you can to help. Because the help only goes around when people make it go around.

I wish you all the best and I thank you for sharing your story.

NOTE: I frequently receive questions from people who’ve been fired and who have trouble moving on. Sometimes what’s better than my advice is a real-life story from someone that experienced it. This column is reprinted from Parting Company: How to leave your job (pp. 36-37).

How have you coped with getting fired? Did your career recover, or did you thrive as a result of the change forced on you? What advice (or cautions) can you offer others who’ve been fired? (Or has your problem been the opposite: shackled to your job with “golden handcuffs?”)

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Question

In my LinkedIn profile, I have listed that I manage Windows servers, file servers, mail servers, database servers, and web servers, specializing in Microsoft Server software and technology.

So why would LinkedIn send me the profile of a server at a local restaurant when we’re looking for people with IT skills and experience? Is this just bad keyword matching? Like you have said, they really are not that useful in a job search.

The person’s profile is very clear: “Experienced server with a demonstrated history of working in the restaurant industry. Skilled in pleasing customers through great customer service, a positive attitude, proven multi-tasking abilities, and a never-quit-until-it’s-done perspective.”

Experience includes: “Talking with the guests; bringing around food, beverage and sauce samples; running the TV tower and changing channels so the guests can watch the games they like near them, celebrating birthdays, and other fun things.”

It seems LinkedIn’s A.I.-based algorithms “saw” and matched on nothing but the keyword “server!” How do they get away with this?

Nick’s Reply

If LinkedIn can’t distinguish a restaurant server from a computer network server, WTF is LinkedIn selling to corporate HR departments?

Stories about job boards and A.I. failing to deliver are so abundant that users have become numb to the marketing campaigns telling them that No, no, the technology really, really is intelligent! — even if it’s apparently doing nothing but trivial database character-string matching.

Why do you think they call it artificial intelligence? (For a stunning expose of A.I. in recruiting, read about Hilke Schellmann’s excellent book, Algorithm, here.)

Is it all just LinkedIn marketing?

We frequently discuss the backdrop of phony claims about recruiting technology, but the marketing is evolving and becoming more complex than what it’s advertising! So I’ve lost interest in what the technology is. What I’m interested in is the state-of-the-art marketing of LinkedIn recruiting snake oil!

So before we get into this, my goal with this column is to ask you, dear Readers:

3 LINKEDIN QUESTIONS

• How often do you get bad matches from LinkedIn?
• What wild new promises have you encountered about how LinkedIn A.I. technology is going to match people to jobs?
• And, what are the latest and most shocking experiences you’ve had with this paragon of A.I. — LinkedIn?

Is it all really just marketing?

Wait, wait! How stupid is this?

LinkedIn has been at the networking business since 2003. It claims to use A.I. to “connect” people and to match people and jobs. It claims to use “semantic processing algorithms” and “context” to “understand” your professional background, industry, skills, and network to suggest relevant job openings, connections, and content.

Gee, they’ve been at it 20 years and LinkedIn’s technology still cannot tell the difference between a waitperson that serves diners and an IT person that manages servers — even when LinkedIn turns on the “understanding” feature of its A.I. How stupid is this?

New LinkedIn A.I. or old, old database technology?

Please stop and think about it. Your example is a very, very simple case of a humiliating matching error. No A.I. is required for such errors. If it were, it would “understand” that, in context, you and the waiter are no match at all. (That’s why I printed all the “context” details of the person you received as a match. The context is clear!) To me, this error reveals LinkedIn is merely matching character strings — old, old database technology.

Please take no offense, but the mistake LinkedIn made with you is nothing compared to the shocking numbers and kinds of mistakes LinkedIn makes while collecting billions of dollars from HR departments every day.

That’s why recruiters that stare at LinkedIn all day contact you about so many jobs that are so laughably wrong for you.

This is after LinkedIn has been working at it for 20 years.

The price of artificial recruiting

The cost of a standard LinkedIn Recruiter “seat” for a single recruiter that hopes to find the right candidates is approximately $12,960 per year. A typical larger organization with extensive hiring demands could have dozens or even hundreds of recruiters. Do the math. A big company with 200 recruiters sends LinkedIn over $2.5 million every year to find waiters and waitresses to work in their computer server rooms.

LinkedIn’s estimated revenue last year from Premium subscriptions including recruiter seats was $6.44 billion. Is that the price to find servers or servers?

Vulse reports that “The [LinkedIn Premium] platform’s search now includes semantic matching, meaning it understands the context and intent behind queries, not just the keywords. Semantic search is an advanced search technology that enables search engines to understand the meaning behind words and phrases. Instead of simply matching keywords, semantic search returns content that aligns with the overall intent of the query, leading to more accurate and relevant results.” [All emphases added.]

What would your servers like (to swallow) for lunch?

You asked a question that haunts hiring managers and job seekers every time they dream about matching jobs and applicants: Why all the errors? Why the simplest, most obvious, most embarrassing errors?

How much can everybody swallow? Is somebody lying big-time about whether LinkedIn really, really works? Why did it match you with a server?

So what’s the point? If all of LinkedIn’s “A.I. technology,” “semantic processing,” “understanding context” and “understanding meaning” can’t tell the difference between a restaurant server and a computer server — what’s everybody paying for?

Somebody could make out like a bandit.

Please read the 3 QUESTIONS I posed above. I’d really like an update on your experiences with LinkedIn, especially its new, improved A.I.! I’m sure everyone would be interested! How often do you get bad matches from LinkedIn? Thanks!

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Question

Your advice is very, very upper management biased. Presenting a “business plan” in a job interview just isn’t possible in most non-management jobs! I’m trying to picture a waiter doing an executive interview. Not everyone can be the boss. Will you acknowledge this?

Nick’s Reply

How is a waiter like a CEO? That’s really what you’re asking.

The answer was obvious 100 years ago, and probably 200 years ago: both jobs affect a company’s profits. Why is it so hard to grasp? Why is that simple idea so lost in American business today?

A waiter’s executive interview

Every job used to be assessed on how well it paid off — that is, on the success of its “business plan.” Today that’s obvious for a CEO’s job. But, when it comes to lower-level jobs, suggests Wharton labor expert Peter Cappelli in Why Good People Can’t Get Jobs, “the internal accounting systems that give companies guidance on what to do are, on one hand, pretty sophisticated when it comes to cost. On the other hand, they are really unsophisticated when it comes to benefits.”

So HR and the waiter’s boss “can tell you to the penny what it costs to fill a job and what the labor costs are.” But modern corporate accounting systems don’t reveal the “benefits” or value produced by a specific job — unless it’s a management or executive job.

However, waiters that grasp and can communicate the benefits of their work to their employer stand apart whether the modern employer measures those benefits or not. Those waiters are more worth hiring. The waiter that shows up with a business plan has an executive interview.

The executive interview is about profit

Long before corporations became so complex, and jobs so narrowly defined, virtually all employees grasped that their performance — even at blue-collar jobs — directly affected their employer’s bottom line. But today, you can hardly find a manager — even a CEO — that can tell you how a specific job (or employee) contributes to a company’s success. This is because jobs are now fully characterized by how much they cost a company, not by how much they profit the company.

Rather than address your hypothetical waiter example, I’ll tell you about a real example to illustrate my larger point that every worker “can be the boss” who must be able to explain how they profit their employer by doing the equivalent of an executive interview.

The lab technician’s executive interview

There used to be a radio talk-show host in Philadelphia named Irv Homer. Irv was an institution in Philly. He was crotchety, insanely smart, blunt and focused on educating his listeners. I was his radio guest many times. As you might guess, we did live Q&A during his broadcasts. We took unscripted questions from listeners about how to land a job.

One caller wanted to share his success story about getting a job. He was a blood lab technician and he’d recently been rejected for a job. But, using advice he’d heard me give on an earlier Irv Homer program, he called the manager who had rejected him to ask for a second chance and he knew how to say it.

How to Say It

“I know I blew it when you recently interviewed me for a job in your lab. Since then I’ve thought about your operation. If you’ll give me 15 more minutes of your time, I’ll show you how I think I can speed up processing time of blood samples by about 10% with no loss of accuracy. If you’re not satisfied, I’ll leave and never bother you again.”

The manager took him up on it. The guy showed up, went into the lab with the manager (no interview this time), looked it over, and showed how, by shifting the work space around, he could speed up the work process and boost efficiency significantly. He got the job.

I have no idea how much faster the lab was able to process samples. The technician basically created a business plan for the job, and then executed it in his second meeting with the boss.

I believe this works for any job. If a person can’t do what this technician realized he had to do, then they have no business asking for the job. Any job.

This works in an executive interview, too

Not long after I met the blood lab technician on Irv Homer’s show, I did a workshop in another part of Philadelphia — for the Wharton School of Management’s Executive MBA students. I taught them substantially what we’re discussing here. Afterwards, one of the executives reached out about how he used the “business plan” approach in a job interview:

“Your two biggest lessons (at least for me) at work in the flesh: (1) Never divulge my current salary, and (2) Talk about what I will do, not what I’ve done. The hiring manager more or less offered me the position on the spot and indicated a salary range that is roughly 40-50% more than I make now.”

Every job is a business in itself and deserves to be treated as one. Every job needs a plan for success and profitability at its own level — not just executive jobs. Every employee is the manager of their own job, and their #1 priority is to do the job profitably.

Why do we seem to have lost track of this fundamental idea?

See also Employment In America: WTF is going on?

Do you agree with the O.P.? Or are the jobs of CEOs, waiters, technicians and managers all really businesses unto themselves that require planning and profitable execution? What’s the difference between interviewing for a job and showing how you will run the job as a business? Do you believe you just don’t get paid enough to worry about your job’s profitability? Is it even possible to calculate the profitability of a single job?

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Question

I am now working at a company that is loosely affiliated with a large university that happens to have a prominent think tank. I have the right education for a job there. My plan is to leverage my boss’s university connections to get me an internship (or job) at the think tank. How do I go about asking for a personal referral or recommendation?

Nick’s Reply

It sounds like you’re fortunate enough to have a boss who is willing to help you with your next job. Good for you for using a contact to get introduced. While your competition will just be submitting applications, you will be the person who “got hired because they had an inside track.”

I like your approach — go for it. But remember that career change is challenging. Just because a person has the right education and qualifications doesn’t mean they are useful to the employer. You must be able to explain and prove it.

However, I would not ask your boss for a personal referral just yet, because many people are hesitant about giving out names of personal contacts. After all, giving you a thumbs-up to a colleague means putting their reputation on the line.

How to request a personal referral

First, set the stage by demonstrating that it’s about more than just “getting a name.” I’d start by asking your boss for “advice and insight” about the think tank. People often hesitate to make an introduction, but they love to share their thoughts, so start there.

How to Say It

For example, ask your boss about the organization before asking for a favor.

• “Where do the big thinkers at the think tank come from?”
• “Do employees at the think tank all have the same kind of background, or does the think tank hire more broadly?”
• “What skills and education does the think tank look for?”

Then be silent and let your boss talk. Let the discussion evolve and center on how the think tank operates, what skills its people have, and so on. Gradually, your boss will get the idea and the topic will shift to a referral.

The key is motivation

My guess is your boss will interpret your interest and your good questions as evidence of your motivation. When someone looks to me for a professional introduction, I know they’re looking for a job. But what I’m looking for is their enthusiasm and motivation; their level of true interest in the work and in the person or company I’m going to refer them to. If all they want is a job, they’re not going to impress my contact. I want them to impress — that will make me look good. So, take the time to demonstrate real professional curiosity.

If your boss does you the courtesy of introducing you to someone at the think tank, once again, don’t be pushy. Don’t jump in and ask your new think tank contact for information about jobs.

How to Say It

Start by talking shop with the person to establish a professional rapport.

• “What kinds of projects are you working on?”
• “What are you reading nowadays that influences your work?”
• “Which organizations do you think are pushing the state of the art?”

How to Say It

Express your interest on specific, relevant topics, and ask for recommendations about how to educate yourself further. Then follow up with:

• “If I were interested in working for the think tank, what would you suggest I do to prepare myself to be a good candidate?”

(Of course, you should phrase the suggested questions so you’re comfortable with them. Come up with more of your own!)

Step into a professional relationship to get a personal referral

This creates the opportunity to talk to the person again later, after you’ve followed the advice offered and after studying the recommended materials. Cultivate dialogue step by step. By building a professional contact inside the think tank, you will stand a better chance of getting referred for a job. Remember that it’s best to cultivate a relationship first, and to ask for favors later.

Finally, don’t rely only on your boss for those introductions. Check this brief article for tips on making new contacts of your own: Meet The Right People.

How do you ask for a personal referral? How can a colleague or employee successfully request a referral from you? My suggestions are just a start. What would you recommend to this reader?

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Question

I have a client who has a stained record, both in regard to work experience and some run-ins with the law. She keeps getting fired when employers eventually find out. What do you suggest?

Nick’s Reply

It seems you are a career counselor or a lawyer or a recruiter. Some might think your question is a joke, but I’ve encountered a number of people who can’t get or keep jobs due to serious problems in their history.

What you must ascertain is whether your client is truly ready to straighten out her life. When a person is serious about cleaning up their act, they can help themselves by taking a few common sense steps. If they expect they can keep playing games with their reputations, then neither you nor I can help them.

You don’t say what, exactly, this stained record is, so I’m going to assume it doesn’t involve violent behavior or anything that could put an employer or other employees at bodily risk. (Of course, there may be other risks.) But you will have to judge whether this person is redeemable and safe to work around.

I’ll offer some tough-love advice I’ve given to ex-convicts, alcoholics and addicts, people who’ve been fired for cause, and worse. It’s painful, and it’s not easy, but it can work if a person is diligent and sincere. Here’s what I’d tell her.

1. Fess up.

If you have a stained record, you must disclose to the employer your past problems, though you need not do it until you have a job offer. But under no circumstances should you accept a job without coming clean. Failure to disclose is what gets you fired, and every time you’re fired you go deeper into the abyss. The law may not require disclosure, but you asked my advice — this is what I would do to demonstrate I have integrity.

2. Get recommended.

Face it: An employer is right to be worried your problem will become their problem. It takes a powerful personal recommendation to help an employer get over that fear. This means you must cultivate good recommendations — people who will put their names on the line to endorse you.

I said this wasn’t easy. But you must find one or two people whose word the employer will trust. Then have them call the employer to recommend you — don’t wait for the employer to make that call. If you don’t have such references, take a low-level job and perform well, until you’ve made your boss and your co-workers believers who will speak up for you. Then, don’t make your references regret sticking their necks out to help you overcome your stained record.

3. Ask for guidance.

When you disclose your problem to the employer, you must also ask them to tell you what you must do to help them trust you. As long as it’s not illegal, unethical, or injurious to you or others, do it. Your mistakes are costing you. Pay the price and move on. Taking such guidance from the employer makes you partners. Be ready to be judged. Don’t let the employer down.

4. Make a commitment.

Once it’s clear what the job is and what the employer expects of you, look them in the eye and say, “I will make a commitment to you to do X, Y, Z [whatever the job and the employer require], and I will not fail you. If you’re not happy with me or my performance at any time, I will leave without you needing to fire me. But that will not happen. I will make sure you are happy with me and my work. That’s my promise.” Again, the law may not require such a commitment, but it’s what I’d do.

Since your client will also have to explain why she got fired, I suggest she read this article: How much should I say about getting fired? The comments from my readers are even better than the article.

Break with your stained record

There’s nothing magic, fun, or easy about cleaning up a stained record. Your client must take her lumps, be honest, cooperate with an employer, and then deliver on her promises. I wish her the best. My compliments to you for trying to help her.

Some may take issue with the “take your lumps” suggestions I offer. Some might view this as too risky for the employer, or unfair to the job seeker. I believe it’s worth considering helping anyone willing to try to fix their lives, but no one should do anything they think they shouldn’t, even if I suggest it. Use your best judgment.

Have you ever had to recover from a bad reputation, whether you earned it or not? What did it take? Ever take a chance on a person with a troubled past? What did they say or do that convinced you? How did it turn out? What further advice would you offer in this case?

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Question

I’m a federal employee. The mass firings have shaken all of us up. I’m trying to keep my head down and just do my job but it’s nerve-racking. “You have just days to decide to quit and take a buyout with guaranteed pay until September” followed by “Well, there may be no budget to pay you” or “Come back to work, we didn’t mean you.” It’s all a cluster-f*ck! My boss and his boss have convened several phone calls and Zooms and I can’t believe the mixed messages! Our union is on this but I’m wondering if you have any advice on how I could protect myself.

Nick’s Reply

Now that is a tall order! I don’t pretend to be an expert in federal jobs, but here goes.

This newsletter steers clear of politics. But then again, Ask The Headhunter frequently goes head-to-head with HR — and this is probably the biggest HR cluster-f*ck we’ve ever seen.

HR everywhere can and must learn from this.

Where’s the HR management?

The question is, what constitutes HR in this management catastrophe? Is it Elon Musk? Is it the President? Is it DOGE? The Office of Personnel Management?  Does each federal agency have its own HR? Who is authorized to make HR decisions about who gets fired, how it’s done, who is “government waste,” who decides what a severance package is, etc.?

Then we have what you refer to as mixed messages — or what I call the incompetency of people that are running the joint without (pardon me) HR skills, credentials or common sense.

Everyday there are multiple “HR policy” flip-flops coming out of D.C. — though there is no indication this has anything to do with policy, and everything to do with running roughshod over millions of employees without any objectively defined justification or reason. Elon Musk (I love his cars but wouldn’t want him anywhere near my company) may be brilliant in many ways, but managing employees isn’t his strong suit! Evidence of this is in his corn pone orders that read like the beta of a first-gen AI bot wrote them. They’re obviously written by a neophyte to government who is blissfully naïve about the law.

Where is the legal compliance?

Even if every single federal employee was an example of wasteful spending, the law still doesn’t support the ham-fisted actions Musk and his DOGE are taking. Even some of the worst HR departments in the commercial sector have proper procedures for laying off workers, and rarely does it happen so quickly and without due process.

You know how critical I am of HR, but this is a perfect example where someone with an ounce of HR acumen would be welcome — at least to do what most HR execs do, and that’s to worry about compliance with the law.

So we must look at the top-most federal executive in HR, the Acting Director of the U.S. Office of Personnel Management, Charles Ezell, who goes by “Chuck E.” on LinkedIn, a conceit that I’m guessing would get him ghosted more often than not if he were job hunting. And, ahem, 2,059 followers? Really?

As evidenced by his public profile, Chuck E. is all data architect and data jockey — with zero HR cred. There is no mention of HR in any of his skills lists. (He does have lots of keywords, but none in HR.) But why would the top federal HR dog cede key HR functions to Elon Musk? (Maybe because the DOGE pen is all data jockeys, too?)

I could be ranting about any inept, unqualified HR exec but I’m focused on this one because you asked. And, to quote my sainted mother-in-law, I’m impressed. But not favorably.

Prepare for legal action

So what can you do to protect yourself? While a federal job is different from a commercial one, there are still rules and many of the most important ones cross over. This is why the federal government is being sued six ways from Sunday by employees and unions, and it’s why you should gather legal evidence against your employer if you’re caught in this mess. (Please see The 6 Gotchas of Goodbye.)

In case you will need to file legal action, keep a diary of events including dates and times. Save all documentation including e-mails and social media posts.

Then there’s the advice of my good buddy, powerhouse employment attorney Mark Carey, whose clients are all employees, never employers. Coincidentally, Mark just published a podcast titled The Power of Recording Your Boss. Though it may be a bit repetitive, it offers some gold nuggets you can’t afford to miss.

Press RECORD

If you are in a one-party consent state, record phone calls and conversations related to your potential termination and/or to inconsistencies between your organization’s published “code of conduct” and its own behavior.

Such recordings are admissible in court and, according to Mark, can make an employee’s case: “When you record something like this… it’s a direct statement made by an employer as an admission of fact… it’s an admission against interest by an employer… it’s called smoking gun evidence and you can use it.”

One-party consent means it’s legal in your state to record a conversation between two or more people as long as just one party to the conversation (usually just you) is aware it’s being recorded. (This includes Zooms — use an off-camera recorder.) Check this list of one-party consent states; note that District of Columbia is on it. Mark Carey’s podcast provides more information about when you can and can’t record legally.

Use your phone

I’m not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If your federal job (or any job) is at risk, and if you’re in the middle of being suddenly fired for no reasons related to performance, then this is indeed a cluster-f*ck. Prepare for possible litigation. You’re not powerless in the face of the most powerful people in the world. It may be that your own most powerful weapon to protect your job and career is your phone — just press RECORD.

Are you a federal employee? Did you get fired from a federal agency by DOGE without due process? Did your agency’s HR meet with you to discuss your job? No? What are you doing about it? Have you made any recordings to use in court?

NOTE: I’d like to hear from folks in the HR community, too. What do you say about all this?

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