How to Say It: I want interview feedback!

On September 13, 2021
How to Say It: I want interview feedback!

Question

I enjoyed reading your book and I enjoy getting your newsletter even though I feel a little out of place because I am in Human Resources. I find your observations about the hiring process to be very accurate. You have a knack for explaining how to phrase certain questions and statements in interviews so that they will come off sounding right. I need your help asking for interview feedback.

When I’ve just been interviewed for a job, I want feedback. Please tell me how to say it to the hiring manager: “How did I do during the interview? What are my prospects for moving forward?”

Nick’s Reply

interview feedbackThanks for your kind words. Don’t feel out of place. Many HR folks subscribe to this newsletter, and you’d be surprised how often I’m hired by HR organizations to speak at their meetings. There are many progressive HR practitioners out there!

I’m going to try to answer your question with a suggestion that not only gets you the feedback you need, but which can also make you a much stronger candidate.

Candid interview feedback

Getting interview feedback is indeed a bit of an art. But if you stand back from the experience, like a headhunter does, you kinda wonder, Why don’t all managers provide feedback immediately and to all job candidates? Why does anyone have to ask?

I think it’s mainly because interviewers don’t know how to phrase their comments and because they don’t want to appear like they’re making a commitment. They need help with “how to say it” themselves!

Candor is important in business transactions. I think a manager should have a pretty good idea whether a candidate is a likely fit — and should know why — by the end of just one interview. While it may help to interview other candidates before making a decision, it’s healthy for a manager to test their judgment immediately: If this candidate were the only candidate available, would I hire them? Why or why not?

That is the substance of candid, end-of-interview feedback to any candidate.

A manager should share their reaction to your interview right there, on the spot. Here’s how I think you can nudge the information out of them. It involves putting them off balance a bit with a what-if question.

How to Say It

“Thanks for taking time to meet with me. I’ve learned a lot about your operation and I hope you’ve gotten a clear idea of who I am and what I can do for you. Before we part company I’d like to ask you something. What if, instead of a job interview, this had been a project meeting and I was your employee? Would you promote me? Would you give me a raise? Or would you fire me? Based on our meeting, please tell me which you would do. No holds barred — be completely honest with me. Because if I haven’t shown you how I could help your bottom line, then you shouldn’t hire me.”

You should, of course, bend and shape that to suit your own style and needs. Let it sound like you, not me.

Interview feedback: Hire me or fire me?

Please consider this statement carefully: If I haven’t shown you how I’d contribute to your bottom line, then you shouldn’t hire me.

How can you pull off the kind of job interview that makes you confident about using the How to Say It suggestion in this column? Stand Out: How to be the profitable hire.
That’s a strong position to take. It’s almost a challenge to the hiring manager! And it should be. After all, the entire interview was the manager’s challenge to you! Candidates who are unable or unwilling to make such a statement simply have no business in that job interview. Did you prepare enough? Were you convincing enough? If not, you don’t deserve to be hired. In my experience, engaging a manager on this make-or-break level can elicit the candid, important interview feedback you need.

I believe this is also an excellent way to prepare for your interview. If you want to increase your chances of positive feedback, be the candidate that truly deserves it.

Whether or not the manager actually answers you, I think their demeanor will reveal a lot and you’ll know whether to go home and wait for an offer, or move on to another job opportunity where you can be a more compelling candidate.

How do you say it? Prying useful interview feedback from employers is difficult and awkward. Do you have magic words that work? How confident are you about the feedback you’ll get? What other tough questions would you like “How to Say It” advice about?

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How to invest in job futures

On August 30, 2021
How to invest in job futures

Question

I sought out a couple of companies that I want to work with, researched them, found actual names to contact personally, and got interviews. They are impressed with my background and they want the talent I offer in their organization, but do not have a position open right at the moment. What can I say, or how can I continue to approach them so they do not forget about me?

Nick’s Reply

job futuresI’m going to show you how to stop trying to get a job today, and how to invest in job futures.

You have accomplished what all job hunters set out to do: You got a company interested in you. Even though neither of these two can hire you now, they are very real, long-term prospects and you’d be remiss if you did not cultivate them properly.

But here’s the important lesson: This is how most good opportunities germinate.

Job futures

It’s far more likely for an employer to meet impressive candidates than it is to hire one. Even after the interview, you remain impressive. It’s just that, no matter how impressed it was, the employer forgets you. It’s on you to keep that spark of interest alive by investing in it. Most people just flat-out fail to recognize and nurture “job futures.” Future opportunities are some of the very best if you keep tending them. Don’t let this one die on the vine.

Good opportunities germinate in a first encounter, and bear fruit later.

Imagine if during your life you had five or ten companies express this level of interest in you. At some point in the future, one or more of these seeds could blossom into a serious opportunity, but only if you tend it during all that time. The next step you take is potentially far more important than responding to job postings or tweaking your LinkedIn profile. So get moving.

They won’t forget you

I would e-mail or call the managers you spoke with. Give a gracious thank-you, and ask if there are other positions open — positions for which you might be able to recommend other candidates. Yes, you are offering a professional courtesy. You are helping these managers fill other jobs and you’re establishing a valuable relationship, and you’re helping a friend get a job. (Don’t worry that you’re creating your own competition by referring someone else! If these managers think you’d fit one of those other jobs, they now have even more reason to consider you — they already know you!)

They won’t forget you.

Then ask for a favor in return: Do they know managers in other good companies — managers they respect — to whom they would recommend you? Add, “And if nothing works out, I promise to stay in touch with you in the event a position opens up in your company.” Ping them every three months. Share a relevant article you’ve read, ask for advice about some work-related topic, and otherwise gently cultivate your connection.

Keep tending this investment and they won’t forget you. This is how I cultivate good candidates I’ve found but have not placed. Yet.

Invest now

I’ve seen people miss out on great opportunities because they failed to understand how long-term business relationships work, and because they are in a rush. They want a job now, so they disregard a chance to develop a lasting relationship they will need in the future. Today’s job often arises from diligent follow-up work you started years ago.

In three years, you’ll wish you’d started doing this now.

Has a rejection ever turned into a job offer for you later on? Do you stay in touch with managers you “clicked” with but who didn’t hire you? Do you have other examples of such contrarian experiences, where a thoughtful courtesy — I call it investing in job futures — results in a benefit later on?

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Job-search blasphemy: Ask for the boss’s resume

On August 24, 2021
Job-search blasphemy: Ask for the boss’s resume

Question

60 years of experience have taught me that most managers are not qualified to manage. But most job applicants never check them out before accepting a job. Nor do they check out the managers several layers up. It’s a recipe for disaster and it’s so obvious. What are your thoughts?

Nick’s Reply

boss's resumeEver ask a hiring manager for their resume before you agree to a job interview? No? Why not?

This is the danger of applying for lots and lots of jobs. The more jobs a person applies for, the less due diligence they do on any of them, including on the managers they’d go to work for. When one of 20 job applications yields an interview, there’s no good way to do your homework in time. In fact, the smartest approach is to do your homework before you apply! (Don’t miss What if there’s no time to prepare for the interview?)

Who’s your boss?

I believe the failure to do such due diligence increases the chances you’ll go to work for a lousy manager, simply because the baseline probability that any particular manager is inept is significant.

“Nor do they check out the managers several layers up.”

Resume Challenge: Who’s the boss?
I invite managers, HR, career experts, even job seekers to give us one good reason why hiring managers should not provide their resumes to job applicants. Use the Comments section below.
Now you’re literally “taking this to the next level!” I mean as a job seeking strategy. Job seekers typically “research a company” before an interview, but their research is cursory at best. Here’s the key: “It’s the people, Stupid!” You need to know who’s your boss. (The other key is Never work with jerks.)

A prudent job seeker checks out the hiring manager who owns the job, and the bosses above the manager. Your success at a job depends heavily on the people that run the joint. While the conventional wisdom focuses on winning an offer, that’s not the goal. The goal is a job working for good managers and a good company.

So I agree with you completely. Check out the management stack before you invest time pursuing a job. Because if you don’t, and you invest heavily in interviews, and they make you an offer, you’re very likely to take an offer from the wrong people — and you will rationalize your decision simply because you put so much time into it.

Due diligence

Pick your target companies and managers thoughtfully. This is the time for due diligence.

Before you interview:

  • Ask who will interview you.
  • Ask who the hiring manager is.
  • Ask who is the manager’s boss and who their boss is.
  • Use Google and LinkedIn to check them out further. Be thorough.
  • Ask around — who knows these managers?

After you interview with the hiring manager, ask to briefly meet their bosses.

In Fearless Job Hunting, Book 5: Get The Right Employer’s Attention, I show how to conduct due diligence before and during the interview, and before accepting a job offer. These are just a few tips to help keep you out of trouble.

In the interview, don’t miss these points:

  • What must the company do to meet its goals? Is your job important in meeting these objectives? How?
  • Check out the tools that will be at your disposal. If they’re not part of the deal today, don’t expect you’ll get what you need later.
  • Who, in other departments, will affect your ability to do your job successfully? Meet them. Look for facilitators and debilitators—people that will help and hinder your performance.

From “Is this a Mickey Mouse operation?”, pp. 13-15

Have you seen your boss’s resume?

The alternative is to request what they demand from you — the bosses’ resumes. Does this all seem inappropriate and awkward? Perhaps even blasphemous? Contrary to how we’re programmed to (not) think when we’re job hunting, seeing your new bosses’ resumes would be a prudent, reasonable thing before you decide to throw in with them.

They want to know who you are before they’ll interview you. They want your resume. They want to talk to your former bosses (references). And you can bet they’re going to check you out online.

Maybe you won’t see their resumes, but by job offer time, make sure you know who your bosses are. Judge them all, because your success depends largely on who you’re working with.

Do you know who your bosses will be when you’re considering a job offer? Is it so unreasonable to want to read a new boss’s resume? How do you avoid taking a job with the wrong people? How else can you check out, in advance, who you’ll be working with?

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How can I “hang out” to make new contacts?

On August 16, 2021
How can I “hang out” to make new contacts?

Question

make new contacts“The best way to land a new job is to make new contacts. Hang out with people who do the work you want to do.” Nick, you often write that and it makes me misty for the days when that was possible. [See last week’s column.]

Even before Covid, “hanging out” with people was getting more and more difficult. After-work hangouts – maybe in big cities or company towns — are just gone! In suburban metro Boston, that seems un-pin-downable! Again, even before Covid, it seems like a lot of people with serious commutes were more focused on getting home than hanging out after work, especially as they got married and had kids.

The internet does offer some possibilities to meet people and “hang out” with them virtually, but it seems like the internet killed off a lot, too!

I often wish you and your readers would talk about how they make that happen — make new contacts that might lead us to good jobs. How do you “hang out with people” these days?

Nick’s Reply

NOTE: We all know that other people are our main source of introductions and personal referrals to new jobs and work. The purpose of this week’s Q&A is to poll everyone for your ideas about how to make new contacts in a time when the pandemic has made it more difficult to meet people easily. I’ll offer this reader a few tips, and I suspect you can share even better ways of “hanging out” to make new contacts nowadays.

That’s a good question. Virtual gatherings are not as useful (or fun) as doing it in person. The virus has made socializing and meeting new people more difficult. The professional events and gatherings that served us well are curtailed. I wish I could wave a magic wand and get us all out in the real world to hang out! The internet and social media have not been an adequate substitute for having a glass of wine or a beer with people.

More ways to make new contacts

So that really forces us to consider how we can connect. During this iffy phase of the pandemic, meeting in person might be limited to outdoors, but you may still be able to pull it off. I sometimes round up a few business friends for lunch or breakfast in a safe outdoor setting, and suggest they each bring a friend, co-worker or boss — or a vendor or consultant they like. There’s no agenda. We just hang out and talk. We avoid asking about open jobs. We talk about our work and other interests.

Another way to trigger hanging out is to reconnect with people you worked with years ago but haven’t seen. Meet somewhere you all feel comfortable. The agenda can be to catch up on one another’s work, and perhaps to serve as a sounding board for one another to get a different perspective. I have two old work buddies that I go on hour-long hikes with. We each bring up a work problem we’re facing and discuss it. It’s amazing how someone outside your own field can help you see new solutions. (Learn why shared experiences are the key to good networking.) These two have introduced me to their own business buddies that I’ve met at outdoor cafes. (Not everybody likes to hike!)

Online ways to make new contacts

Does your business or field have any good online discussion forums where people talk shop? Do you belong to an association that meets via Zoom? Search Google for your type of work plus Zoom to see what you can turn up. You have to be creative and put a bit of effort into it.

If you’re in a trade or other profession (as opposed to working in an office), talk to your sources of supplies or services. Ask them who they think are the best in your line of work. Get introduced. Get in touch. If you’re not sure how to start a discussion, ask the person how they’ve handled a problem you’ve faced on the job — and say your supplier gave you their name. Offer to return the favor of their advice. You’ve made a new buddy.

Hang out on the phone

Sometimes the phone is best. About once a year I make a point of e-mailing past clients I haven’t seen or heard from in a long time. I rekindle things by suggesting we catch up by phone. These calls can go an hour! I make no sales pitches; I keep it social but professional. I always ask who they’ve met in the past year that impressed them, and that sometimes leads to introductions.

Humans are very social animals. We’re also lazy! There are ways to connect if it’s important to us, though it make take a special effort. I think it’s always worth it!

How do you meet new people and make new contacts that might lead to a job? Is hanging out with people who do the work you’d like to do still possible? Other than in-person, online or one the phone, how can we make the personal connections that open up new work opportunities? I’m sure you’ve got better ideas than mine!

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LinkedIn & Indeed aren’t good sources of hires because they don’t know anybody

On August 9, 2021
LinkedIn & Indeed aren’t good sources of hires because they don’t know anybody

Question

Whatever sources of hires you use, are you more interested in passive or active candidates? By passive I mean people that aren’t actively looking.

Nick’s Reply

sources of hiresFirst, you shouldn’t worry about what any headhunter is interested in. Headhunters are involved in relatively few hires among all jobs that get filled every day. You should be focused instead on conducting your own job search and cultivating good professional contacts. Most hires come from respected sources in your field that know and recommend you.

That’s why websites like LinkedIn and Indeed are lousy sources of hires and jobs. They have no brain! I’ll explain why it’s painfully obvious in a moment, even if employers pour billions of dollars into these third-rate database companies masquerading as second-rate database companies.

Real sources of hires (and jobs)

As a headhunter, I’m not interested in candidates. I’m interested in sources of the best candidates. It’s important to understand this. When an employer posts a job, its HR department looks in the wrong places — the job boards — to find as many candidates as it can. HR likes to say it’s “sourcing” job candidates. But it’s hardly sourcing when a job board runs a program that matches sequences of characters in a job description to characters in millions of resumes.

I’ll jump over the 200 keyword-matched candidates (passive or active) that LinkedIn or Indeed delivers, to instead talk to one or two “shining lights” in the industry or field I hunt in. These respected, successful people know a handful of workers who would be best for my client — maybe you! — and that’s all I need to fill a job. That’s what I get paid for: Having sources who know the best.

So, while I place candidates, I look for good sources first. Then I don’t have to find candidates. (I don’t care a rat’s patootie for database matches.)

What do they know?

The database jockeys behind these job boards will answer that they do recommend the best candidates — the ones with the highest matches! So, why don’t they bill for their services only when the employer hires one? (Check out Indeed sucks on a leading HR podcast.) I challenge any job board to operate under this model: Pay per hire. They’d never risk it because they don’t really know the candidate.
It’s irrelevant whether someone is active or passive, employed or out of work. What matters is what the opinion makers in your field think of you — and I’ve placed some phenomenal unemployed people that most recruiters wouldn’t even talk to. Recruiting isn’t really about filling jobs. That’s not what companies pay headhunters for. They pay us because we are a hub of sources. Good headhunters have good sources — people in a field that others go to for advice like, “Who would you recommend for this job?” Such sources put their reputation on the line every time they make an introduction.

So what matters is not whether the candidate is active or passive. It’s whether the headhunter has access to good referrals, recommendations and introductions in the professional community in which they operate. This is how we find only the few best candidates, whether they’re “looking” or not — and that’s why the headhunter doesn’t need 1,000 keyword-matched profiles.

That’s why job boards are a lousy way to fill or find a job. They deliver massive digital dumpsters full of “keyword-matched” resumes for employers to wade through, because they don’t know anybody so they cannot recommend the best candidates.

My sources need to know you

What makes this good for you is that you don’t need a headhunter (much less Indeed!). You just need to do what headhunters do: Rely on credible referrals.

  • Participate in your professional community.
  • Seek out the most skilled, talented, respected workers — the ones others turn to for opinions, advice and help.
  • Hang out with them.
  • Get to know them.
  • Help them get to know you.
  • (Don’t forget to be really good at the work you do.)

It’s up to you to be known to the sources employers and headhunters rely on. When they’re asked, you’re who they will recommend — because they know you. Then it’s up to you to decide how passive or active you want to be.

If I’m involved in the deal and you come highly recommended, I don’t care whether you’re active or passive. I do care that you’re one of a very few excellent candidates recommended by a trusted source — someone that knows you — for a job I’m working on, and my next step is to get to know you better. The same goes for any good employer (you don’t need a headhunter).

Machines, software, algorithms, databases — it seems to have escaped everyone that they don’t know anybody.

What’s the key to getting hired (or to filling a job)? Just how personal must this be? Are the job boards an adequate substitute for the a personal recommendation from a credible source? Can personal recommendations scale as sources of hires and jobs? (Is scaling even desirable?) These are big questions that database jockeys never ask much less answer. Only you can do that. Please share your answers — and ask your questions.

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Rescinded job offer: Did you dodge a bullet?

On August 2, 2021
Rescinded job offer: Did you dodge a bullet?

Question

I’d like to bring up an old subject — a rescinded job offer. I’ve been a reader for a while and have been helping my father in an interview process. He has been in the construction industry for 30-35 years and consistently climbed the ranks from laborer to owning his own construction company and hiring and managing project managers. He was recently approached for a president position at a mid-sized company. I spruced up his resume and helped him prepare for the interviews.

rescinded job offerAll went well. They said they wanted to grow the division to 3X its size under his leadership, and that they would make it worth his while. We were shocked when the offer came through without mention of any incentive plan to meet the ambitious growth objectives that were a cornerstone of their discussions. The offer was just a solid salary and a promise of a “review in 6 months.”

He was disappointed but still interested in the job, and he wanted to think it over for a few days. He had some concerns about the leadership team and the way this job would change his life. On day 2 they gave him a deadline to decide: evening of the next day. He replied, asking until the afternoon of day 4. On the afternoon of day 3 they rescinded the offer because they wanted someone who was “all in.”

I believe he dodged a bullet. The sudden rush for a decision, no plan to reward the ambitious growth they want him to commit to, and the sudden withdrawal of the offer —  these are all red flags to me. What are your thoughts? Am I off base?

Nick’s Reply

Last week we discussed how job opportunities go south. This is special case because a tendered job offer went south! Sometimes you cannot see an employer clearly until you witness its behavior after it makes you a job offer. These people sound like jerks, and I’ll explain what I mean in a minute.

What’s behind a rescinded job offer

First let’s look at the facts and at the employer’s behavior. These are signs a job offer might be rescinded.

  1. They came to your father; he didn’t approach them. In such situations, the employer should be extra respectful (they want you to marry them!) and deferential (no rush for intimacy!). This employer demonstrated neither the appropriate respect or deference.
  2. Their pitch was not matched by their offer. I agree – there should be terms in the offer about rewards for meeting the key objectives for the job. It appears that 3X growth is a cornerstone of this job, so where’s the support in the offer?
  3. You don’t woo someone that you really want to hire by giving them ultimatums.
  4. It seems to me this company was not “all in” on hiring your dad, and while there are several indications, it became starkly evident when they ignored his request for an extra day. Granting it would have been a courtesy — and a sign of good faith.

Based on what you’ve shared, I agree your dad dodged a bullet. I think the company rescinded the job offer because your dad’s hesitation signaled that he saw problems — and this employer likes its executives to be a little bit blind. The reason for my conclusion is simple: What you see is what you get. If he accepted the offer under these circumstances, he should expect to be treated exactly this way once he’s in the job.

Pursue dreams, not nightmares

Regular readers know that my mentor taught all his students this rule: “Never work with jerks.” The dismissive behavior of the company reveals jerks. Withholding a simple courtesy that your dad requested, and pulling the offer without any discussion, tells us all we need to know.

I know your dad is stinging a bit. It’s understandable that he was having dreams of running a larger company, growing a business, getting rewarded for doing a heavy lift (3X growth would indeed change his life!), and rising to the level he thinks he deserves. It’s hard when you can see it and taste it, it’s so close. But when we look at the reality of this deal, this company is not part of that dream. He’s got good dreams that he should absolutely pursue, except not with jerks that almost dragged him into a nightmare.

Turn the tables

More about rescinded job offers – and what to do about them
The only advice I’d offer in retrospect is this. Since your dad had reservations about the management team, he could have bought more time to consider the offer. Rather than ask for more time to think about it, he could have turned the tables and asked for one more round of meetings with the executive team.

How to Say It
“For our mutual benefit, I’d like to make sure we’re all on the same page regarding the company’s ambitious growth plans. Before we finalize our decision to work together, I’d like to suggest we meet to review our objectives and plans for growth. Is your team available tomorrow?”

I could be wrong, but I think that might have bought him more time as well as more data points on which to base this important decision. I’m guessing the employer took more than 3 days to decide to make the offer! However, I don’t think any of this would have changed the outcome, except perhaps that your dad would have been the one to end the discussions.

Rescinded job offer? On to the next!

Please congratulate your dad on getting an offer to run a company. Even jerks recognize a talented manager, even if they don’t know to treat him. I’m sure your dad knows the difference between good people and jerks. In the throes of getting a job offer, we sometimes set aside our good judgment. Having had time to consider the signals this company gave off, I think your dad might see what life probably would have been like working there.

Please tell him I suggest that, now that he knows how to sell himself as a top executive, he should pursue that kind of job with good people at a healthy company that demonstrates respect and appropriate deference.

Some might view your conclusion and mine as “sour grapes.” But I really think the evidence you’ve shared tells us your dad dodged a bullet.

I hope something I’ve said is helpful. On to the next! I wish you both the best.

Is my analysis sour grapes? What could this executive job candidate have done differently? Was the employer to blame for rescinding this job offer? Have you ever dodged a bullet? What happened?

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Most job opportunities go south

On July 26, 2021
Most job opportunities go south

Question

I went in for my interview and, as job opportunities go, all went great. I met with the HR manager and the Division Manager. They called me back in on Thursday to meet with the Regional Manager, since he was in town. It also went well. We mainly talked about outside activities and life experiences in a jovial laid-back manner. I went back in today to take a personality test.

I am forcing myself to not get too fired up about all of this. But, I have to think that no company would subject an applicant to all of this without leaning toward the hire. When should I begin to expect something in this process? I figure that there can’t be much more for me to do than meet with three six-figure managers and take a personality test. Is there?

Nick’s Reply

job opportunities“I have to think that no company would subject an applicant to all of this without leaning toward the hire.”

Expectations

Never, ever, ever succumb to this mindset. This is the point in the interview process where people start to set an expectation because they feel they’ve “invested so much.” They start to believe the employer is now “heavily invested,” too. And that sets their expectations.

Far, far worse, such expectations convince job seekers they can suspend further job searching “until this opportunity plays itself out.”

In fact, the best thing you can do next — once the interview process is done and you’re waiting for that offer — is to devote yourself to your next job opportunity. Let this one percolate, but don’t wait for the offer. You know what they say about watching water boil. Move on. Get your next interviews lined up!

Most job opportunities go south

The truth is, you have no idea what this employer’s threshold is for taking action. As a headhunter who has dealt with more interviews than you ever will, I can tell you that most job opportunities go south. Even when you think an offer is imminent, you won’t get the job. You’ll never know why. Don’t bother to guess. If you try, you’ll find nothing at the bottom of your frustration but self-doubt.

Why does HR waste time, money and the best job candidates?
Do your best with this particular opportunity. Follow the process through. Ask for feedback and ask for a decision timetable. (That’s legit and important.) Maintain your enthusiasm, but don’t build expectations.

I’m not trying to discourage you. Motivation and a positive attitude are crucial. But never start believing “they’re going to make an offer, I can tell”. Because you can’t.

Don’t let this discourage you. I hope you get a great offer — and you might. But at this juncture it’s up to the employer. They control what they do next. Please use this advice to take control of what you do next. Never wait on the employer’s decision. Always be working on your next alternative — because most deals go south.

Were you convinced a job offer was coming, then it didn’t? What made you think so? Did you waste time waiting? If you’ve had this experience, what did you learn from it?

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How to get a friend hired at your company

On July 19, 2021
How to get a friend hired at your company

Question

I went to work as an engineer at a company when it was quite small. Then it got taken over by a large company that got swallowed by another company. We are growing by leaps and bounds. In fact, we are moving to a new office as we are bursting at the seams.

Many people have worked here since the 1980s, and there are growing pains. Part of the challenge is adapting to big corporate ways. I learned a few days ago that direct managers are no longer tasked with interviewing. Rather, someone else interviews and then the manager is told who is coming on board.

Right now I’m trying to help a former coworker hired. Of course, my boss is not supposed to interview him. How do we get past HR and the recruiter? Any advice on how to get a friend hired?

Nick’s Reply

get a friend hiredSo now the recruiters run the asylum? And control who gets hired? Perhaps you should reconsider subjecting your friend to that, and perhaps ask yourself whether you want to continue working for a company whose managers are not involved in selecting their new hires.

It will be interesting to see how the best managers cope with this. I suspect they will develop a black market for hiring, out of necessity. They will create their own recruiting and hiring channels, but make it appear HR is in control.

I’ll start with a suggestion to the managers in your company (if I don’t transgress!), then we’ll talk about what you can do to help get a friend hired at your company. I would not talk to HR or to the recruiter. (You can also help a friend get a job elsewhere.)

It was just lunch!

If I were a manager, I’d find my own good candidates and take them out to lunch.

Interview? What interview? I didn’t break the new HR rule. I just went to lunch!

If I decided to hire the person, I’d instruct them to submit their resume to the recruiter and indicate that they are interested in working in my department. Then I’d get in touch with the recruiter and say, “Someone I respect just told me So-and-So is a great engineer who’s being heavily recruited by our Competitor X. Any chance that person’s resume or application is in your system?”

HR recruiters love being in control, but they love making their jobs easier even more. I’d nag the recruiter if necessary until I confirmed the candidate was interviewed and issued an offer.

How to get a friend hired

Since you’re not a manager, you have even more degrees of freedom. I think you can get your friend hired if you go the extra mile. This is just one suggestion to get the ball rolling. I hope readers will chime in with more ideas!

Ask your boss out to lunch. Say you’re meeting an old friend — an engineer from your last employer. “We always have fun talking shop. You’d fit right in.“

Interview? What interview? We’re just having lunch!

During this casual meeting offsite, your boss will have a chance to learn about your buddy without pressure. Of course, if interest is sparked, after lunch your boss must be assertive enough to go talk to HR and say, “I just learned a great engineer is being recruited by our Competitor X…”

You know the old expression, “You can’t wash your hands with rubber gloves on.” Well, managers can’t run successful operations if somebody else is picking their new employees.

I think you have a lot more influence — and control — than you suspect. After all, don’t you want to be working with the best people? Someone’s got to help your company’s managers subvert a silly new policy!

I’d love to hear more suggestions from readers!

Have you ever helped get a friend hired at your company? How did you pull it off? Did HR handle it expeditiously?  Were you paid a referral fee? Did your personal recommendation clear the path for interviews? Who does the candidate selection and hiring at your company? 

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2 weeks vacation time? Are you kidding?

On July 12, 2021
2 weeks vacation time? Are you kidding?

Question

I’m one of those people who’s been waiting all year to quit my job and just did it. Your advice about negotiating salary (explain your value) worked great! But a careful reading of the offer and benefits (thanks again) revealed I’d get only two weeks’ vacation time! I’d be walking away from five weeks at my old job. Do I really have to give up my hard-earned vacation?

Nick’s Reply

vacation timeThis is the perfect time to negotiate assertively for what you want because employers are dying for good talent. If you’re really good at your work, you have excellent negotiating leverage in the current economy and labor market. I’m glad to hear you got a good salary offer. Now let’s work on that vacation time!

Many companies want a new hire to start earning vacation time all over again — but that doesn’t make it a done deal. If you want the vacation time you deserve, you must negotiate to get it.

I have never understood why companies claim vacation time isn’t negotiable. Their position is, “That’s the way we’ve always done it. It’s the policy.” What a company means is that it won’t be able to keep a lid on vacation policy if it negotiates special deals with new hires. But that doesn’t make sense. Just as some people are worth more salary, some are worth more vacation time.

Salary history & vacation time history

Employers demand to know your last salary because they want to base their offer on it. “The only fair way to structure an offer is to look at what you’re already earning,” they explain. So if a job offer is based on your last salary, why shouldn’t your vacation time be based on the amount of vacation time you received at your last job, too? When a company asks for your salary history, why doesn’t it ask for your vacation history? Both reflect your industry seniority and your value.

So what does it mean when a company offers you a job with a paltry two weeks of vacation, and you’ve been taking four or five weeks off at your old company? Okay, let’s get to the advice part of this column. But please remember: this is advice, not a guaranteed way to get five weeks of vacation.

Time off is compensation, not a benefit

The reason you can negotiate salary but not vacation time at most companies is because salary is part of your compensation. Vacation time is not. Vacation time is considered a benefit. Salary can vary, but benefits are fixed. (Or so companies would like you to believe.)

But there is no rhyme or reason to this distinction.

In my opinion, time off is compensation just like cash is because “time is money.” You get compensated for your work with money, and you get compensated for your work with time off. Your expertise, experience and seniority make you worth higher compensation because you probably do more and better work than most junior employees. So it makes sense to give you more time off. Your work still gets done.

I think vacation benefits are negotiable if you have the leverage of expertise and experience (or “seniority”), and when the company isn’t policy-bound.

Negotiate all compensation

My advice: Wait until the offer has been made, then diplomatically and matter-of-factly explain that just as you wouldn’t take a lower salary, you wouldn’t accept less vacation time for your level of seniority in the industry.

Of course, you must decide in advance whether vacation is a deal-breaker for you. In fact, you could test an employer by bringing this up before you agree to do an interview — make vacation a condition, just like your desired salary range. Some companies will balk at this. The more they need you, the more likely they are to negotiate. When employers aren’t flexible, you might want to take an alternative approach.

Tips from an HR insider

To get a well-rounded perspective on this issue, I turned to an expert I respect. Marilyn Zatkin is a veteran HR manager and consultant in Silicon Valley. Her perspective on both the policy and practical sides of this question is solid. She reveals that some companies will be flexible because they understand that vacation is a form of compensation. They also don’t want to lose a great candidate! Here’s what she has to say about this:

“Most companies do not like to alter their vacation policy and create internal equity issues. There are alternatives to granting more vacation than policy allows, such as giving the person a sign-on bonus equivalent to the desired vacation amount, and then letting the worker take the extra time off without pay in the first year. A company can also take that ‘extra vacation value’ and include it in the total compensation package. However, they usually try to limit a special deal like this to the first year.”

I’ll point something out: The moment Zatkin (or any HR manager) concedes that there is a dollar value to vacation time (after all, she’s offering a cash bonus to pay you back for less time off), we have established that vacation time is, indeed, part of compensation. The only thing left to negotiate is how much. I don’t see why that sign-on bonus or “extra compensation” can’t be permanent. (See also Can’t negotiate a higher salary? Ask for more money.)

This may not solve your long-term vacation problem, but it suggests to me that companies are indeed aware there’s an issue they have to face. So I say, negotiate and be as firm about vacation time as you are about salary.

Is time off a benefit, or part of compensation? Have you sacrificed vacation time when changing employers? If not, how did you negotiate it? Do you think you’d have more negotiating leverage nowadays if you changed employers?

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Jobs vacant but managers seem in no rush to hire

On June 28, 2021
Jobs vacant but managers seem in no rush to hire

Question

You’ve no doubt seen all the news items about how difficult it is to fill jobs these days because so many people aren’t interested in working. I’ve been trying to get a key job filled in my department. I’m in a rush to hire. I can tell you the competition is very stiff. Human Resources keeps losing hires to other employers, even though we’re making competitive job offers.

Today I’m really upset because, after 3 weeks of interviews (everyone was very positive about her) we lost a candidate I thought was a definite hire. When I spoke to her about 10 days ago I made it clear that an offer was being processed and I could tell how pleased she was! We just needed to get a final signature. (The finance manager that signs off was on a trip long put off because of the virus.) Finally HR told me they called her with the offer. She went to another company. What’s going on with people now?

Nick’s Reply

rush to hireI’m going to take a stab and read between the lines. You’ve lost lots of candidates you wanted to hire. You interviewed the most recent candidate over a period of three weeks — way too long. Then it seems you took over two weeks to get an offer out to her. My guess is that, in this highly competitive hiring market, you’re way too s-l-o-w… taking way too long to complete a hire.

Probably the single best way for a company to solve problems, boost productivity and be successful is to get the right people on board as quickly as possible. So, why does the hiring process seem to take longer than a presidential election campaign? Is it because we’re hiring presidents every day? Nope.

It’s because responsibility for hiring is broadly distributed. No one is really in charge of being in a rush to hire.

Who’s in a rush to hire?

It’s easy for a manager to think, “I’ve got the right candidate. I’m ready to hire! Now it’s HR’s job to put the offer together and make this happen.”

Or, “My V.P. has to sign off on this. It’s in his court.”

And, “I’m a busy manager. I don’t have time to baby-sit the job offer process.”

In today’s world, managers seem to have more important things to do than hiring the best people to do the work. For too many managers, hiring is not job #1. That’s why companies rely on HR departments and clerks to process employment paperwork — right? If managers like you spent their time just getting new hires on board, there would be no time left to run the business!

That’s the wrong attitude. Hiring is every manager’s #1 priority — or the business doesn’t run at all.

How long does it take to hire?

A search for statistics about how long it takes employers to make a hire turns up scarce recent data, which is revealing by itself. What’s the HR industry hiding? It appears to be such a tender nerve that reports from 2016 and 2017 are heavily cross-referenced even today. The most widely cited is from 2016.

The Society for Human Resources Management (SHRM) has reported that the average time to fill a position is 42 days. But, according to an OfficeVibe report, “The best candidates are off the market in 10 days.”

Of course, time to hire varies by industry and position. We can only wonder how long it’s taking today, in the early post-COVID period when employers complain they can’t find enough good candidates. But common sense tells us that the faster you can hire, the better your chances of your offer being accepted.

My evidence is only anecdotal, but the best job seekers and candidates I’ve worked with say the employer that makes a good offer decisively and quickly scores big points. We don’t really have good, current data about how long it should take to fill a job. But we know that less is better. “We decided we want you now!” seems to count a lot to job applicants.

Managers: Make hiring job #1

Another thing candidates tell me is that they are impressed by can-do managers who take personal responsibility for getting them on board. “That’s the kind of boss I want!”

If you’re in a rush to hire, but you wait for HR to handle your hiring, consider this: You probably can’t fill vacant jobs because another manager in another company (One of your competitors?) is stealing your best candidates. She’s hand-walking a job offer through the system, pushing aside the obstacles, riding herd on her boss until the documents are signed, riding herd on the HR department to do its job, and getting everything processed the same day. The return on this manager’s time investment is huge. She’s got a new employee on the job, getting the work done.

Meanwhile, you’ve got vacant jobs. Your investment in this last candidate just got lost on the way through “the approval process.” Your top candidate went to work for your competitor. Impressed with the other manager’s can-do attitude, “your” candidate took the other offer. (See Why HR should get out of the hiring business.)

If you’re a manager, next time don’t be so busy. Replace the wait-for-HR-to-do-it attitude with your own initiative and expedited process. Make sure you’re interviewing only the best candidates. Interview faster. Eliminate delays. Make faster decisions. Hand-walk the job offer through the approval process the same day. Or, prepare to spend your valuable time interviewing more candidates while your competitor is busy hiring them.

Are job offers flying out fast? Are managers showing any rush to fill jobs? Whether you’re a job seeker or a hiring manager, what do you think hampers efficient hiring? What obstacles have you encountered? What could employers do to speed up the process?

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