Salary history: Will HR put up or shut up?

In recent postings (How to make more money, Why you should tell me your salary) we’ve discussed whether job applicants should disclose their salary history to an employer. This topic has taken wing elsewhere: On BNet (Should Jobhunters reveal salary requirements?), on PunkRockHR (Candidates, Salary, and Disclosure) and on Job Hacking (What happens when you don’t pay attention to statistics?).

Job hunters seem to clearly recognize why it’s not a good idea to disclose, even if some feel pressured to do so. (Hey, I don’t knock anyone who desperately needs a job and decides to disclose. But I think that’s a short-term fix and later the tire is gonna blow on you big-time…)

Some in HR offer all kinds of reasons to support their position that applicants should — or must — disclose salary history or forfeit their chance at a job. I find none of them compelling.

But I don’t think HR managers are dopes or even disingenuous. I think they’re brainwashed and can’t see past their own bureaucracy. So I’ve been trying to figure out how to turn the tables and help HR solve the problem without waiting for candidates to cough up their salary info. That way these employers won’t have to pass up good candidates.

So here’s my suggestion and my simple business logic. HR contends it’s legitimate to ask for an individual’s salary history and that the information is a crucial component when assessing a candidate. HR contends salary information should be shared in the context of a job application and interview to enable both parties to determine whether further discussion is realistic, and to ensure that if discussions lead to an offer, acceptance of the offer is a realistic possibility. HR contends that salary history helps an employer judge a candidate.

So here’s what HR should do. Following the same logic and rationale, at the point where HR would ask for the candidate’s salary history, HR should instead share: Read more

Why you should tell me your salary

In How to make more money we’re discussing why a job hunter should decline to state salary history. People who stand firm and say NO to the demand for salary info argue it’s the only position to take. HR folks and some headhunters argue that if an employer requires your salary info, you’re dead meat if you decline. They claim it’s not smart to say NO.

Let’s change the question from, Should you disclose your salary history? to Why should you disclose it?

So here’s the challenge to employers (and HR) and to headhunters: What can you tell the candidate to convince her that it’s to her advantage to tell you her salary? How will disclosure clearly benefit her? I’d like to see some solid reasons why it’s to the candidate’s advantage. (“Because if you don’t tell us, we won’t consider you,” is not an answer.)

I think there are some valid reasons to disclose to a headhunter, but no good reasons at all to disclose to an employer.

Uh-oh. A good job board. If you wanna call it that.

It’s easy to criticize all the opportunistic online career businesses — they are everywhere and they’re obvious. So, is every career-related site online worthless, crooked or just plain dog doo?

Of course not. There’s some good stuff online. I regularly try to point you to sites that publish non-career content that I think can be used to advance your career. Now I’m gonna show you a job board — yes, a job board — that’s worth using. I know that no matter how often I recommend using personal contacts to find jobs, many of you will use job boards anyway. So you might as well be smart about it and use a board that actually does what it claims to do: show you real job listings from real companies, and nothing else.

LinkUp is a new job board with some interesting features. Most interesting is what LinkUp does not do. Here’s the FAQ:

Where do LinkUp job listings come from?
Directly from employers. LinkUp does not accept jobs from third parties. You know: multi-level-marketing operators, recruiters who work in dank basements in unincorporated countries, and those iron-curtain identity thieves. All LinkUp job listings come from employers.

How does LinkUp get its job postings?
It uses spiders to gather real job postings only from real companies. LinkUp does not scrape jobs from other job boards (oops… that’s what the other job boards do). LinkUp doesn’t ask permission to gather the jobs, but no company has ever complained that LinkUp is doing it. LinkUp adds a company’s jobs without charging the company. So if a job is out there on a company web site, you get access to it in one place.

How fresh are the listings?
As fresh as last night. LinkUp gathers jobs and updates its listings every night. If there’s a dead listing in there, it’s because a company itself left the job on its own jobs pages on its own site. (Hey, there’s no law against dumb companies.)

How does LinkUP do that?
Really good programmers and staff who work late.

What happens to my personal data when I apply for a job on LinkUp?
This is what I really like about LinkUp. You don’t fill out forms on LinkUp and LinkUp has no job database or resume database or application database. You find the posting on LinkUp and LinkUp sends you directly to the employer’s web site. Anything you submit goes to the employer, not to LinkUp. (LinkUp cannot control whether an employer might outsource its job-board database to Monster or one of the other boards, but that’s not under anyone’s control but the employer’s. Keep your eyes open anywhere you go. All LinkUp does is let you find a real company’s real jobs on the company’s own site.) This is as clean as a job board is gonna get. If you want better service, use personal contacts to find a job.

Will LinkUp find me a job?
No, Dopey. You do that yourself. What I like about LinkUp is that it won’t find you a ton of detritus that’s been lying around some job board’s database for six years. And it doesn’t let dirt-bag “recruiters” dump their trash into your results page.

Can you guarantee me no problems and that this is legit?
Have you ever heard me guarantee you anything? I don’t. LinkUp was started by GL Hoffman, a guy I’ve worked with and known a long time. If he’s pulling my leg, I’ll never buy him another beer. And when have you ever seen me recommend a job board, anyway?

How does LinkUp make money?
Always follow the money. LinkUp pays me nothing and I don’t pay LinkUp anything. Ever hear of Google? You know those search results up top on the Google page, the ones in the shaded box above the rest of the results? Those are results an advertiser is paying for, but you know that. Like Google, LinkUp puts some paid job listings at the top of its search results, too. But they’re not ads; they’re job listings like all the rest that you’ll see, and they match your search criteria. (They have a colored background so you know what they are.) But if someone clicks on them LinkUp earns some money.

What’s LinkUp going to charge me to searchfor jobs?
Nothing. It’s free for job hunters. It’s free for companies, too, unless they want a couple of their jobs up top in the highlighted section of the results.

Yah, sure. But what does it cost for PLATINUM service when I’m looking for a job?
There is no platinum service, gold service, or anything for a job hunter to buy from LinkUp. They don’t sell resume-writing services, or career coaching, or your information to third parties. It’s free. No catch. LinkUp makes money from companies that want their jobs highlighted in search results.

Well, this doesn’t sound like a job board any more.
LinkUp is not a job board. I called it a job board to get your attention. LinkUp is a search engine that finds jobs on companies’ own web sites.

That’s it. Try it and let me know what you think. If you find a bug, it’s because the geniuses at LinkUp keep tweaking it to make it go faster and to find results more accurately. And if you find something that really bugs you, say so and I’ll dangle a beer to get GL to come over here and answer your question.

How to make more money: Withhold your salary history

One of the most popular articles on asktheheadhunter.com is Keep Your Salary Under Wraps. The advice is simple: Don’t disclose your current salary or your salary history when a prospective employer asks you for it.

The reason is also simple: When you disclose your salary information, your negotiating leverage is gone. Your salary history is not any employer’s business. Always decline to disclose, politely but firmly. No matter what they say, no matter what they threaten. In fact, be ready to walk away if they don’t back off. It’s not worth talking to a company that insists on having your salary info.

(Go ahead and post arguments about why employers must have an applicant’s salary history and why applicants must disclose the information if they want to be considered for a job. If you work in HR and I’ve made you nervous, go ahead and level every threat you can think of to protect your hiring hegemony. I’ve heard all the dusty rationalizations. None of them hold water. They are all rubbish. I’ll answer every single one.)

I regularly receive e-mails from readers who take this bold position when applying for a job. They are almost always astonished to realize that employers back off from the demand if the applicant stands firm.

Having controlled their confidential salary information once, people never go back to forking it over. They lose their fear. They are emboldened. They send me stories about how they walk out of interviews when the employer threatens to terminate their candidacy unless they divulge the magic number. People learn to say no, and they realize that conceding is wrong. They realize that employers who insist are a bad risk. Why work for someone who tries to force you to share private information that has no bearing on your interview, on your value, on whether you get an offer, or on what the new salary offer is?

A fellow named Ryan runs a blog called The Idealistic Investor. It’s a new blog, not much stuff on it, but all the articles are about some aspect of personal investing and work — and full of common sense. What I like is that Ryan is a techie. He works in IT (information technology) and he brings a techie’s practical, clear-headed perspective to pesky issues like stress at work, layoffs and what to do with your money.

Ryan is also one of the people who politely but firmly declined to divulge his salary history to an insistent reruiter at a technology company. The phone call ended and so did Ryan’s expectation for a job interview or a job. Learning what happened next is worth your time, and probably a nice bit of change in your next job offer: Do You Disclose Your Salary History? Check it out, then tell me what you think.

[UPDATED 3/17/09] Some of the dialogue here stems from today’s edition of the Ask The Headhunter Newsletter: HR’s salary moxie.

A company’s greatest weakness

In yesterday’s Career Journal (a publication of The Wall Street Journal), #1 of the Top Ten Stupid Interview Questions was once again dissected, analyzed, and solved.

What’s your greatest weakness?

In the annals of interviewing, we know a wag once offered the best answer ever heard — “Chocolate.” — and that’s when it was time to retire that corn-pone question from the canon. But it lingers.

The question itself reveals what is perhaps an employer’s greatest weakness — stupid interview questions. “My greatest weakness is intolerance for psycho-babble that passes for a job interview. Do you want me to show you how I’ll do this job, or shall we move on to what animal I’d be if I could be any animal?”

The Career Journal addresses this interview hurdle thus: “The key? Thorough preparation.” Preparation for what? To come up with yet another clever answer that the interviewer hasn’t yet read in some interview book? I suppose one could prepare diligently by reading the hundreds of books that offer clever answers.

Then the article offers this pinnacle of organizational idiocy: Read more

The dope on TheLadders

I’ve written before about TheLadders’ veneer of exclusivity and the mass-market business model underneath it. When a paying customer of TheLadders recently shared the transcript of a customer-service “chat” she had with a Ladders’ rep, I had to hit this topic again. The misrepresentations TheLadders makes on its web site are beyond the pale. “Only $100k+ Jobs. Only $100k+ Candidates.”

Only it’s not true.

The story is in this week’s Ask The Headhunter Newsletter: Liars at TheLadders. E-mail from readers has been filling my mail box — comments that I’m sure other readers would like to see. So I’m opening this up for discussion here on the blog. Please feel free to post your comments below.


UPDATE March 19, 2014
Angry, frustrated customers of TheLadders who say they were scammed finally get their day in court. Federal Court OK’s Suit Against TheLadders: Breach of contract & deceptive practices

UPDATE March 12, 2013 A consumer protection class action suit has been filed against TheLadders. If you believe you’ve been scammed by TheLadders, you can join the suit by contacting the law firm that filed the complaint. More here: TheLadders sued for multiple scams in U.S. District Court class action


: :

Dig this advice

Welcome back from the holidays! Let’s start the year with some small bites of easily digestible advice that tastes good and hits the spot. Serial entrepreneur GL Hoffman serves up these two tips that you can use immediately:

Recession-Proof Your Job (Keep it)

How to Find a New Job

Hoffman writes one of the few blogs I read: What Would Dad Say? (It’s where the above links lead.) And now he’s put out an e-book that I admire. You can try a taste and see if you like it!

Salary history: Just say NO

Want to earn what you’re worth? Yes? Learn to say NO when employers demand your salary history.

Say what? You can’t say NO? They’ll rip up your application? The HR manager will laugh in your face and tell the world you are uncooperative and unworthy? Say what? Withholding salary information just isn’t done? Aw, don’t be a wuss.

I covered the importance of Keeping Your Salary Under Wraps back in May (Just say NO), but a reader’s pointed policy should be yours, too. She gets 10 Headhunter Points for integrity and street smarts. Can you afford to give it up when employers demand to see your pay stub?

Nick,

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I drove my stake in the ground earlier this year while unemployed. Divulging my salary was blowing up on me because I had either earned too much or not enough.

It isn’t always easy. An officious, as well as uppity, Sr. Human Resources Manager scoffed at me by saying it wasn’t true that my previous company wanted that information held private because other people from my previous company had shared their salary history with her. I delicately replied the behavior of other people did not mean the policy wasn’t in place and thanked her for acknowledging I was unique as a person who demonstrated integrity.

As a sales person, I have had success answering the salary history question with, “There are so many variables with sales positions such as inside vs. outside sales, travel requirements, ratio of base to commission, etc., that I have found it easier to discuss the parameters of and the value you have placed on the position you are offering.

As I was working with a recruiter who was insisting I share salary history and be prepared to show W-2s at the interview, I sent an email stating:

“Regarding sharing privileged salary information, I honor the commitments I make to my employers and do not share that information with anyone.  Even my parents and siblings have never known what I have earned. One of my litmus tests for how well a company’s management team makes decisions is how well they assess skill sets/experience in regard to the particular position and base compensation on those salient factors. If they believe W-2 information is a valid determination, that raises red flags for me. I want to work with a company that demonstrates sound, not specious, business decisions.”

Within five minutes, the recruiter’s manager called me to explain they were having trouble with the demands of that particular employer and he had a better position for me, one more closely in line with my passions and skill sets, with better compensation, and for which I wouldn’t have to divulge salary history.

There is a tremendous value to taking a stand. I will never divulge salary history again. I am spreading the word and encouraging my colleagues and business acquaintances to stop sharing as well.

Thanks again for supporting us as we have the courage to take the high road. Companies and employees alike will be better served when salary history is no longer a part of the discussion.

Jesica

Kudos to Jesica for taking on the salary question with aplomb. When the going gets weird in a job interview and HR gets out of line, raise your standards. If the employer doesn’t know what that means, toss them a quarter and tell them to call you when they figure it out.

How much can you afford?

Many years ago I worked for a small, scrappy, successful company that cut the floor out from under its competition every day. No one could touch us — not on value, and not on price. But we always turned a very nice profit. Our competitors could never figure out how we did it. It’s a lesson in shrewd customer relations and sales.

When a sales rep would moan to the company president (and founder) that a prospect could not afford our price, his answer was always the same. “Sure they can afford it. Just lower the price.”

This drove new sales reps to distraction because they were not permitted to sell at a loss. “But we’ll lose money!

“No we won’t. Take something out of the product to reflect the drop in price. Then show the customer which part of our great products and services she’d have to forego to save a few measley dollars.

Ask the prospect how much they can afford. How much do they want to spend? Lower the price if you have to. Remove features from the product or service to make the product reflect the price. (Or, offer a different product that costs less.) But never walk away from the deal. Always let the customer spend what the customer says she wants to spend. Your job is to sell the benefits of the product, and to help the prospect realize she will get what she pays for. (And, of course, be ready to deliver everything she needs if she is willing to pay for it.)

At that little company (which became a very big company through acquisitions), the most valued sales skill was knowing how to give customers what they asked for, and then to show them the benefits of buying greater value. In other words, how to get lots more value in exchange for spending just a bit more money.

My good buddy Bob Lewis discusses this in another context in his Keep the Joint Running newsletter. Never say no, even when you can’t say yes, suggests Bob. “Your alternative to yes and no is, as always, “here’s what it will take.” You can get from here to there, but not for free. Some alternatives will require investment; all will have risks attached.”

When a manager suggests a job offer at salary $X, you can tell him you’d accept it, “if what you’ve described as the job is all you want me to do for you.” When the manager gives you a quizzical look, offer more. “Well, I could do the job you want. But I could do a lot more. For example, I can show you how I believe I could increase your departmental profitability by 5%-10%. I’d expect a higher salary for that, but that’s up to you.” (That’s at the heart of The most important question in an interview.)

What someone can afford is always a function of how much they get for their dollar.