In the January 28, 2014 Ask The Headhunter Newsletter, a reader decides to ‘fess up that he’s old… in the cover letter:

You’d never know it looking at me or talking to me, but… I’m 64! I learned a while ago to take any reference to my age off my resume, but as I list all my relevant positions and achievements, the reader has to figure, “This guy’s gotta be, like, over 60!” and boom, I’m done. The achievements, the relevant jobs, the references… buh-bye! I don’t know how to overcome this age discrimination without any opportunity for me to respond to it.

when-im-64I recently applied to a position I really want, and in the cover letter to the headhunter I wrote this:

Perhaps the only negative in my candidacy, which I feel I must address here so that it’s out in the open, is my age. I am 64 years old, which I’m sure will strike many as too old. I can assure you that in my case it is not. I’m in excellent health, I still walk 36 holes [of golf] several times a season, I play singles tennis three times a week, I write my columns and blogs in my spare time, and my clients never even think about my age. Other than continually losing arguments with my wife, I show no signs of slowing down, and fully intend to keep working full-time for at least another decade. There you go. It would be unfortunate if chronology worked against me, for no valid reason.

I figure, well, at least I’m open about it, and either it kills my chances or they actually think, “Hey, good for this guy to nip this in the bud.”

What’s your view? Ignore my age and hope they don’t notice or care? Raise it and hope they appreciate the strong position? Or deliberately hide it from all submitted material and let them reject me when they find out?

Nick’s Reply

I think your age is not the determining factor in getting a job. I think it’s a mistake to hide or emphasize age or to be defensive about it.

Consider the baseline probabilities that any given job hunter will get a job offer. They are tiny. The cynic will say, “Well, if you add in age, the odds get even smaller!” No, my view is different.

The odds are always small. But what triggers a hire is something distinctive in a candidate that suggests he or she can do an exceptional job. Such qualities are rare — in any candidate, at any age. For that reason, my advice is to forget about your age altogether. Don’t hide it or rationalize it — but leave it alone. Let them think what they want to think about age — but control the agenda. Give them something else more important to think about.

Your job is to influence an employer to believe you can make a significant material difference in the business. Show them the green, and they’re more likely to forget about the grey.

Three of the Fearless Job Hunting Books will take you on a deep dive into the topics that surround this challenge:

If an employer is going to discriminate over age, about all you can do is sue them. Or, you can hit them so hard with a value proposition that they realize they cannot afford not to hire you.

That’s the challenge. I think most of a hiring decision rides on a person’s ability to deliver profit. Age can pose additional challenges, but I think only the profit angle can overcome that.

By the way — I hate your paragraph about your age. If I were an employer reading that, I’d toss your resume. Why? Because you’re so worried about your age that your concern about it is likely to adversely affect your work and how you relate to others. My advice (but use your own judgment first) is to lose it and stop talking about it unless someone asks.

That’s my two bits. Find the right organization, do your homework (like you would if you were on the job) and hand them a brief business plan for the job — just enough to make them call you.

This isn’t the first time we’ve discussed age discrimination, and it won’t be the last. Should you disclose your age up front?

: :

  1. I don’t know. Age discrimination may be illegal, but it is very real (at least here in Silicon Valley), and it can’t be ignored.

    He says he wrote his paragraph to a headhunter, not to the employer. He needs to be able to have an open and honest discussion with a headhunter representing him, who should in turn be informed enough to say “companies A, B and C will never hire someone your age, so don’t waste your time there, but companies X, Y and Z don’t age discriminate, and need someone with your skills.”

    Sure, being defensive isn’t good. I don’t know whether his wording is perfect. But I think the letter is directionally correct.

    • I just finished my masters in crisis counseling in December. I am 64 and haven’t been able to find a job. Don’t give up. Email me back if yoy would like. David

      • im 63 and alone. i wish to work for my future.. can you help me? thanks

    • Just one problem with that, headhunters don’t represent anyone but themselves. They are performing a service for their employer (the company looking to fill the position) in exchange for payment. They will very often pit potential employees against each other for a particular position. You may think that they are representing you the potential employee, but that is not usually the case. So, I would go carefully when giving out information to them that could be used against you. Age is something that they don’t need to know, so leave that out of the discussion.

  2. @Nick, You say, “Show them the green, and they’re more likely to forget about the grey.”

    There’s a great book title in that! And it’s even greater advice.

    Show Them The Green, They’ll Forget The Grey.

    • I’m 66 and have applied to over 178 applications and walkin interviews. If you don’t think age is still a discriminating factor, I beg to differ. I was a Medical Assistant for 13 years. Prior to that I was a Personal Land Portfolio Executive. I have had interviews but I believe it’s due to company policy to do interviews on an older person to prove non-discrimination.
      Age is STILL a huge factor in today’s world. It doesn’t matter if you tell it or not.

      • @Geraldine: Age IS still a huge factor in hiring. But I firmly believe that if you’re going to deal with an age bigot, the best appeal is to their sense of making more profit. Show them. Other than suing them for discrimination (a long, expensive road), it’s the only way I know to break through. I wish you the best.

        • I’m 64 and have been in staffing and client management/account management for over 20 years. It is very hard to prove age discrimination. And yes, you are correct Nick, expensive. I have worked with large firms, medium size and small, I have seen age discrimination while with all these firms. Especially over the past 5 years in several of my previous companies. It is very sad to see talented individuals be overlooked by a company because of age and it is just that, age. Interesting enough, I am currently seeking new opportunities and, I can speak from my recent experience over the past month, I have had great phone interviews and on -on site or, face to face interviews. What I am seeing is, those I am interviewing with are half my age, it’s obvious and, reviewing their LinkedIn profiles that show little HR/Talent Acquisition/Recruiter/Staffing experience. I am baffled to read their job titles as “Manager of”, “Director of” with no real life work expereince to be making the call on whether I will proceed to the next step or not. Seriously? Now, being in the industry and knowing very well how to interview and conduct interviews on highly skilled professionals at all experience level. The individuals I have interviewed with, in my professional opinion, are given positions they are not ready for. I don’t blame them per se, but the choice a company makes to hold on to younger employees mold them, train (some) them at a much lower pay grade and give them responsibilities and title of a position that, in my professional opinion, again, they are not ready for. For example: I would receive over 60 resumes in one day sometimes in one morning, for just one position I am trying to fill. When I had over often 10 different other positions to fill as well. I can tell you that is a lot of work and time management that goes into reading the resumes, responding to the senders, setting up interviews, conducting interviews and much more. Many resumes, I have witnessed so often, never get documented, responded to or reviewed. Can be overwhelming, but, over the years you perfect the ability to handle a work load such as I just mentioned. But, until company’s hire more staff, more experienced yes older employees to assist with this,I do not see this practice changing and with that many talented qualified individuals will continue to be passed up for great opportunities. The hiring process has a lot of issues that need to be fixed, I’ve seen it for years and worked constantly to correct what is in my control. After this past month of experiencing for myself, I can tell you as an staffing/hiring industry professional. This system needs to be revamped. It is broken.

          • Age discrimination is huge in the US. I never dreamed the reason that I wouldn’t get a job would be because of my age. They don’t say it, but they say the reason I didn’t get the job is bc they found someone more qualified. One comment made to me was, “We need culture”.
            The sad part is there is nothing that can be done, there are thousands in this same population.
            The thing is, the President of the US is 73 yrs. old! Here I am 10 yrs. younger than the President of the USA and can’t get a job. and as stated, age discrimination is hard to prove and that’s on purpose.

            I’ve got all the experience, license, eduction and now I feel very discriminated against like a sitting duck.
            With no hope in site for change in this regard.

            I have also found out that doing the right thing doesn’t pay well. It doesn’t count doing the right thing.

      • sure at the age of 63 and above nobody wants to hire…I am facing the same problem, I went for several interviews…oh such sweet talkers, you would think they would ask you to start work tomorrow…but NO…never hear from them or they the same silly excuse they found a candidate more qualified and all that crap

        • I’m 69 and have spent the last 30 years in tech support, 16 as a Director of Technology. Once I was outsourced, it was hard to find anything. I did land a “barely over minimum wage” job for about nine months, but that company ran out of money and I was laid off. Since then, I’ve applied and interviews at a few places, including Walmart and Office Max and I haven’t gotten consideration. It is pretty frustrating when you can’t get a job at Walmart or Office Max. I had great conversations with both employers and was told that they’d call me back the next day. It really looked promising. I didn’t hear from them, and when I call they won’t come to the phone. So, I’m not even looking in my field and still cannot find anything. How much experience do you need to stand at the door and check receipts?

          • Hi Mike, I’m also 69 and worked as a supply chain manager for 30 years. Retired a year ago but really miss the challenges that I so enjoyed. With my credentials it’s difficult to understand why I can’t get an interview. Not giving up even though I finally received an interview with Lowes for a customer service position. What a loss for the many companies that discriminate against the aging Boomers who have so much knowledge and expertise to offer up. Keep your chin up Mike and I’ll do the same. Cheers, Kurt

  3. Hi,

    I agree with Nick. Loose the cover letter and “force” them to find out how good you really are. This is a difficult task to accomplish. My question would be “How”?

    I am 65 and I’ve been looking for work for over two years. I’m a HIGHLY skilled computer systems guy. I don’t tell anyone my age. Sometimes I get questions from the MOSTLY Indian head hunters about when my degree is. How are they even working in this country? Is this age discrimination? I think so. How does one prove it? It places me in an awkward position though. I lie, they check, they catch me. I don’t lie, they reject me for age but NO ONE CAN TELL IF THIS IS HAPPENING. I’ve had agencies disappear on me after having a face to face interview with them. What’s up with that?

    I am VERY TECHNICAL in the computer field and have been to first base several times in the past two years. After the face to face interview, I RARELY hear back from anyone! This is TERRIBLY unprofessional to say the least.

    How can I find reliable and trustworthy and HONEST head hunters?

    Help anyone?


    • George, I am a Senior Technical Recruiter – 20 plus years. Not sure you may have reviewed my note I commented on just a few minutes ago. Are you on LinkedIn? perhaps I could provide several names of “reputable firms” in your area. Not certain if this forum allows for that or not.

  4. Like AM the IT industry in the NW seems to think it is acceptable to discriminate on age. The logic seems to be that anyone over 45 is out of date, too expensive or not willing to work at the expected pace. The normal response is “not a good culture fit” or “you’ll get bored doing this job.”

    In some cases the discrimination can be more blatant such as recently on an interview I asked the Director of HR why the position was open and was told it was a new position to backup the head of IT. After 38 years he had decided to retire in 2 years and they wanted to find his replacement and they were looking for someone who would be ready to take over and be there for another 15 years.

    In another case I was given a glowing performance review but listed as a non-performer. When I sought clarification I was told the rating was given to all staff they considered would not be working at the company in 15 years regardless of their impact to the bottom line. It was agreed this was a mistake and HR would address the issue when the performance database was unlocked in 6 months time. Of course 5.5 months later we were all laid-off. When we complained we discovered that age complaints have to be filed within 180 days of the actual event and thus the issue was not addressed. Even though the company agreed it was wrong they are now refusing to change our records because they were never officially guilty of age discrimination.

    I get surprised when HR departments create application systems which make you disclose your age. One wireless telecom company now asks for a scan of your driver’s license or the picture page from your passport – both show your DOB. Recently another ATS required the date you graduated from high school. In these cases you never get the chance to get past these robot screeners to show how you would impact the bottom line.

    As with many I not only intend to keep working until I am 75 but my 401K says I have to – grin

  5. @George R. Goffe: When you permit a middle man to control your job search, you subject yourself to their whims, as you’ve found. The middle man is highly unlikely to understand how you will benefit the client, even if you explain it. So, the best course is to go straight to the employer. Headhunters fill only about 3% of jobs, so I would not invest a lot of time on headhunters who call you out of the blue. If you really want to take this route, check my PDF book, “How to Work With Headhunters.” It’ll teach you the ins and outs and, most important, how to avoid the hh’s that will waste your time.

    • Unfortunately, middlemen (or, women) think and act like robots. They have blinders on and think only in terms of black and white. Their instinct is to deny candidates access to themselves or the hiring managers. Once they decide you are the wrong person, they create a barrier between you and the company and are no longer interested in communication. How do you get them to think of gray area?

  6. @SteveG:

    “when the performance database was unlocked in 6 months time”

    Say WHAT? Do they have a physical vault on a time lock? That’s insane. I’d be talking to a lawyer.

    “age complaints have to be filed within 180 days of the actual event and thus the issue was not addressed”

    This makes no sense. Do you mean LEGALLY or under the company’s policy? Seems to me the event is your termination. Again, I’d talk to a lawyer. This sounds like a company-wide conspiracy against older works. Who’s guilty of age discrimination is decided under the law, not company policy.

    As for companies that want photos of DLs and passports, this is why I advocate taking a personal route to a manager. A company may need such info once you are hired, but it does not need it before. My response would be: “My attorney advises me against providing such key documents to avoid identify theft. Will you be willing to sign an agreement stating you will be liable for any misuse of those documents if I provide them?”

  7. As always, Nick hits the bulls eye. If you show yourself to be highly qualified and personable, any company would be crazy not to hire you.

    Here is another good blog post from a recruiter with some ideas to defeat ageism:

  8. The Opportunity is *Value* vs. *Commodity*

    Plumbing Parts (Data)
    In the computer industry, all the technologies are similar and are like just a pile of parts. Differentiating the competitors is difficult. Customers are always trying to figure out how to configure the pieces to get systems that function

    Application of the Plumbing (Information)
    The customer needs to become educated as to what application solutions best meet the needs of their business operation. They need to understand what *value* a specific technology brings to running their business. How does this solution help manage all the information required to run the business?

    Leveraging the Application (Knowledge)
    How does the application of the technology meet a *financial* need? How does it meet a *business* need?
    What happens when I implement? What happens if I don’t – and the competition does?

    Growing the Business (Corporate Asset)
    How does the application of technology in meeting business needs become a strategic element in growing the business? How does it provide strategic power in the marketplace? How does it help the company meet new customers in new places and in new ways?

    There is a corollary to this that holds true in finding employment. (Notice I didn’t say “in getting a job”)

    In today’s market many people have the same skill set, track record, willingness to work, and needs in being employed. But these “check the box” criteria are just like a bunch of plumbing parts. They all look basically the same and it’s hard to differentiate between what one candidate has from what all the other candidates have. And it’s a dead end game if making that distinction is only left to the hiring manager (and God help you if it’s being left to the HR department, who really don’t know what the job requires!)

    The hiring manager needs to become educated as to what candidate qualities best meet the needs of their business operation. They need to understand the real value specific skillsets and abilities bring to running their business and solving all the problems they’re faced with. The difficulty is that they are so busy, with so many fires to put out, and have so many problems that they can’t handle, that they’re overwhelmed… which is basically why they’re looking for new hires to jump in and put out the fires, so that they (the manager) can get back to doing the work they want and need to do. So it’s up to the candidate to explain clearly what their value is to the company in running the business.

    This differentiation begins by educating them in terms of not only do you have the skills and abilities (“plumbing parts”) — but how you can impact the bottom line financial needs, as well as solve their business needs (“leveraging knowledge”). This is where doing due-diligence of the company’s marketplace and competition is important in demonstrating your value-addedness.

    Critical to this process is to educate the hiring manager on how the application of your skillset and knowledge becomes a *strategic* element in growing their business. How you can help them compete more effectively. How you can add insight to earning and keeping customers. How you can help them expand into new areas, thus shortening the time to market which lets them speed up their growth plans.

    By demonstrating your skills, how you can apply them to the company’s needs, and define them in terms of value (feature/function/benefit) – you provide information that fits with their hiring needs. By demonstrating the application of your abilities in terms of financial impact, operational impact and strategic impact – you provide a tactical advantage for them in running their business, while showing them the strategic value of bringing you on board. As you add value to the data you demonstrate information. Add value to information and you demonstrate knowledge. Add value to knowledge and you demonstrate business wisdom. That’s where you provide value as a corporate asset.

    Otherwise, you’re left out in the middle of the Colosseum with all the other competitors who rely on conventional job hunting and the HR departments — whose incentives are not to find the best candidate, but to eliminate as many as possible as fast as possible.

  9. Sometimes age works in your favor. You can tell it might when the hiring manager says “I thought you were a dying breed!

  10. It is a general rule of thunb…10-15 years of work history-MAX. Why is this guy telegraphing his age by including enough history to show 40 some years of work history. TBut more important, there is a good agruement that what you were doing more than 15 years ago is passe. Skills, technology, contacts, procedures, knowledge that the employer can no longer use.

  11. Good advice, Nick, as always. I would not mention my age. But age discrimination is definitely an issue — although difficult to prove, it is very prevalent, especially in such industries as entertainment and technology.

    I view it as just another hoop to jump through and another reason to focus on my strengths. I should add that, among other factors making it difficult for me to find a full-time job, age led me to forget job hunting and hang out my own shingle as a consultant, where people do value the wisdom of age.

  12. I think that age-discrimination may be easier to overcome for contract jobs than for “regular” employment.

    It may also be less of a factor in remote positions – I heard about one guy who was hired without ever having a face-to-face interview! Their logic was that his position required managing customers/partners through email and phone. That’s a pragmatic company.

    All you IT people (I am not one): those jobs are the hottest around. SV companies have dozens or hundreds of programming and other IT openings – check any company jobs website. If you have the skills they ask and still cannot get hired, you may want to polish your interviewing skills with Nick or another great career coach.

    ATH is the best interviewing resource I’ve ever found, by a mile. And it’s best used alongside a dose of healthy pragmatism. Good luck.

  13. A general rule of thumb is…10-15 years of work history-MAX. The arguemwnt? Anything you were doing more than 15 years ago is passe. Why is this guy telegraphing his age with 40 years of work history? (He said you could see he was in his 60’s.) Managing a Word Proecessing Operation tells them your age! Word Processing is passe but the management skills are not. Concentrate on the accomplishments and not when or where they happened.

  14. As a psychologist, in addition to the great advice here I would also suggest that you anticipate the stereotype of the older worker and proactively demonstrate your qualities that go against that stereotype WITHOUT MAKING MENTION OF AGE. It’s been shown in many studies that referencing a stereotype makes it mentally accessible and inadvertently applied to individuals.
    Best wishes to all in your job search – Erica Klein

  15. @ChristopherC, that’s one of the best explanations of why offering more than your skills is crucial. Copied and save–thank you!

  16. I’m 62. I started encountering age discrimination over two decades ago. It can be subtle (I am familiar with the actual meaning of the term “overqualified”), or it can be blatant, as in the case of a well-known company on the west coast where the interview team contained only one individual who was not young enough to be one of my grandchildren (and he could have been my son) — of course, I was told that I would not “fit with their culture.” Well, DUH. I knew that, the instant I saw them. In retrospect, I should have simply left at that point to avoid the waste of an entire morning, but I decided I could use the practice on my interview skills. Plus, it was kind of entertaining to watch the contortions they went through to avoid the topic of my gray hair. You could tell that they had been well-rehearsed in avoiding that particular legal problem — and that it was still a struggle for them.

    I also made the career-limiting decision over 40 years ago to avoid becoming a manager, and to remain an individual technical contributor. There have been two occasions in my career when I was promoted into a managerial position over my objections, and the way I dealt with both of them was to resign. Seems like the rationale went something like, “Harkness is a pretty good programmer, so let’s promote him to something he will suck at.”

    I was in an interview more than 20 years ago with a guy who looked at my bragsheet and asked me “Where are your ‘soft’ skills? It looks like you’ve been a programmer for nearly 20 years, and never been a manager. What’s wrong with you that keeps you from being a manager?”

    What’s wrong with me is that I’m really good at writing software, and that is what I want to do. And I considered that to be a stupid (and insulting) enough question that I got up and walked out. I did land a job at the very next interview (and I stayed at that one until the company was bought out an moved to the west coast about 4 years later).

    One approach that I have used in the last 20 years, with varying levels of success, is to concentrate on contracting instead of direct-hire. There is much less age discrimination in contracting, and sometimes, a client is specifically looking for someone with a broad range of experience (like I have). I’m currently “between contracts.” It’s been long enough that I’m seriously considering Plan B (along with C, D, E, & F — I *do* have other skills and interests).

  17. Nick–There used to be an article on the ATH site titled ‘Age Discrimination or Age Anxiety’. I couldn’t find it when I tried to provide a link for on of my clients. ‘Too Old to Rock & Roll’ is still there and still a great read.

    I work exclusively with job seekers 50 and older, and the best advice I can give them is to ignore age. We don’t control the opinions and biases of others. In job search, we need to pay attention to those things we do control.

  18. There is a built-in age bias in the hiring processes. With all due respect to Nick, even 1st rate Executive Search firms will be reluctant to present a candidate over 60, unless the HH has identified the candidate through there own methods. If you are “in-transition”, you are far less likely to overcome the age bias applying to jobs in the traditional way. A direct mail campaign can be effective, but your network becomes very important to introducing/referring you to hiring decision-makers. Without a warm introduction, the odds of getting in front of a decision-maker are far, far higher.

  19. “Let them think what they want to think about age — but control the agenda. Give them something else more important to think about.”

    That’s it in a nutshell. So simple, yet so hard – it takes experience and confidence and knowing when to walk instead. Thanks, Nick.

    BTW, what’s your view on gray hair vs. coloring to control the initial visual impression?

    • I am no expert, but my gut feeling says ‘cover the gray.’ You don’t want to create a negative first impression and unfortunately, gray isn’t flattering, especially on women. A sad reality!

  20. I used to color my hair and beard. I don’t bother anymore. Too much hassle. I also find that I don’t really care anymore.

    I figure somebody who judges me by the color of my hair is not qualified to work for *me* — so why would I want to work for him/her? I might consider a short-term consultant role, but not a direct-hire.

    I’ve toyed with the idea of starting my own company, and not hiring anyone with less than 30 years of work experience for *any* position. Yeah, reverse age discrimination. Who knows — It might mop the floor with the competition.

  21. I’m 65, and also pretty youthful. My take on age is this – when I’m interviewing with boomers my age, it doesn’t matter. In fact, it’s viewed as a plus and it looks like I’m a good ‘fit.’ When I’m meeting with younger people, they may think I’m historically cool and interesting, but they perceive a cultural difference, and that it’s not a ‘fit,’ regardless of how good I am at my job. Let’s face it, there are only so many people who want to work with people their grandparents’ age.

    So I focus on organizations with older people actively running the business. They will appreciate you.

    But I don’t keep age out of it entirely, especially on the resume. I started a new career direction within the past 10 years. If that’s all I put on my resume, it would look like I’m in my 30s. You definitely don’t want to show up for an interview if that’s what they’re really looking for. You won’t be a fit for what they want. So I always indicate prior experience and level of responsibility, even if it’s minimized.

    Best of luck.

  22. The assumption here is that the manager most cares about the value delivered and their prejudices are not big enough to throw away that value without even considering it. In this case, age (gender, race etc) really don’t matter, whether you put it or not. You just need to locate managers with this good attitude…

    Unfortunately, it’s kind of difficult. Go ahead and deal with somebody below 30 who believes that people become dumb when they get older (Mark Zuckerberg anyone?). You probably need to color your hair (i.e. purple) and put on the resume that you’re a champion in foosball to prove your value and team fit. Weeee!

  23. @Dave: And there are a lot of crazy companies out there!

  24. @Carol Buffone: I get your point, but the only reason to cover up the dates and shrink the experience range on the resume is to get called for an interview. If you do it my way, you’re not reliant on a resume, so no need to cover up. But I do get your point for those who like to work that way.

  25. Have you considered that some hiring managers at some companies and some headhunters may consider it their job to look for your academic degree date if there is one and starting from there work up your resume to make sure that there are no gaps of employment?

    I’m a recruiter and the last time that I didn’t send a resume to a client that covered the above dates I received a call from the client asking that I supply all the information. When I asked the reason, I was told that in the past they had a candidate that left dates off his resume and when they probed they learned that he was in prison during an unexplained period on his resume.

    Personally, I won’t screen someone out because of age. That said, some hiring managers for some positions prefer bringing in someone with less experience as they envision a mentor/protege relationship. In other cases, more experienced hires are sought. For the more junior roles, if I have a more experienced candidate with the sought after qualifications who will accept the budgeted salary and a strong case for relevancy can be made, I’ll make that case.

  26. @Larry Kaplan: Oh, I know there’s age discrimination. It’s rampant and now it’s institutionalized. Employers and ATS vendors misuse the Equal Opportunity rules to exploit age data. “The feds require that we report it… so we can use it!” I really think the only way to get past it is to take a totally different approach. Eliminate the “middle man” – the resume or job app – and introduce yourself using tools that show what you will do. That usually requires a one-on-one conversation, which you have to arrange without a resume.

  27. @Chris Walker: Man, you really know the archive! “Age Discrimination or Age Anxiety” was never an article on the website. It’s an edition of the newsletter that I re-wrote for Fearless Job Hunting Book Five: Get The Right
    Employer’s Full Attention.

  28. @Phil: “Without a warm introduction, the odds of getting in front of a decision-maker are far, far higher.”

    Yah, but I think that’s true no matter what age you are!

    @Backy S: Hair coloring? I think that’s a personal judgment. I know a guy who colored his hair when it went grey, and he’s still a jerk. It didn’t help.

    @Julia: You’re right, of course, but the whole point to all this is that selecting who you want to work for is a deliberative process. And there aren’t many people worth working for, whether it’s because they discriminate, or because they’re stupid, or because they’re clueless. It’s important to put the age issue into context.

  29. The only way age discrimination will be put to rest is if, and when, the government decides to limit the Social Security payouts to folks who are over 67 years old. In return, companies will be required to hire a percentage of their workers who are over 60 into their workforce or pay a penalty. This government arm twisting will finally put an end to the secret age discrimination generated by HR.

  30. I am a lawyer and have been looking for a full time position for almost 18 months now. I was at my last firm for 10 yrs. I have 28 yrs experience. I am 61. First, no firm is going to talk to you without a resume. (unless you have a MAJOR connection and even then others you have to meet with need a resume before talking). Second you cannot hide your age/experience level since the year you became a lawyer is right on the state bar website for all to see and they can tell by your bar number which is chronological. It would look ridiculous to only include the last 15 years of work history. And I am proud of my experience. There is no question there is age discrimination. It is extremely hard to prove. The law recognizes age discrimination for those 40 and older. You would have to show the company has a pattern of not hiring those over a certain age. NO one is stupid enough to say to candidates “we are not hiring you b/c of your age”. Very very difficult to prove even internally with promotions and/or lay offs especially if you are an “at will” employee. As to the SteveG, you have to file a complaint to your appropriate state agency before you can file a lawsuit. That would be within 180 days from the time were laid off or fired. And it is SO EASY ow to find out someone’s age given all the info on the net or at least get a decade range.

  31. I really wonder about comments like this:

    “I used to color my hair and beard. I don’t bother anymore. Too much hassle. I also find that I don’t really care anymore.”

    Seriously? You don’t care? Yikes!

    If one is in a secure job or retired, I’d say “right on, brother.” But if you are an older job seeker, you really need every advantage you can muster. It’s sad but true that gray or white hair is an instant visual signal that can shout “old. over the hill. fogey” etc.

    My husband is 68, an executive who wants to work 2 or 3 more years, and he uses one of the boxed hair color for men products from CVS. He doesn’t leave it on overlong, so it looks very natural. It makes him look at least 10 years younger than his actual age.

    First impressions are crucial. We can say it shouldn’t be so in an ideal world, but in this world that’s how it is. A little hair dye is a small price to pay, IMO, for a better shot at perceived relevance — and employment.

  32. @Carol Buffone: “Skills, technology, contacts, procedures, knowledge that the employer can no longer use.” Really? REALLY?

  33. Great advice by Nick. Let’s not be naive re. age discrimination though.

    But do NOT be defensive. Be strong. You have FORTY YEARS of experience that you can bring to bear for this company.

    You probably don’t want to work for a company that ignores that fact.

    Not sure about the hair colouring! Whatever you are most comfortable with.

  34. The entire job search business is a HUGE waste of time for millions of bright, hardworking, experienced, skilled, educated people in this country – of any age. How many hours have we all spent applying online in those ridiculous time consuming websites? Of course it’s easy to say go after your contacts and networking, as though getting a job is joining a private club and only certain people are allowed in. I wish there were something we could all do to band together to stop this ridiculous waste of energy in this country. How on earth are we supposed to work until 67 and beyond when nobody can even get an interview!? It’s depressing, frustrating and not right.

    • You were spot on!
      Clevery tactics easily permit those companies to gloss by.
      “1-2 Years Exp”
      “New Grad”
      “Entry level”
      Recruiters/Headhunters will demand your Graduation Date, DOB, and all applicable experience (Date from and to)
      Favorite buzz words discovered in Job Ads….”Youthful” Energetic”
      Yes! Age discrimination is alive and well…and let’s not forget the old standby…”Over Qualified!”
      Give it up, folks. Age Discrimination is easy to get around…after all, who is really monitoring the stats of corporations for their overy 60 hires!
      HR can find any number of reasons to disqualify candidates, as can companies like, Indeed, Monster, CareerBuilder, etc.

  35. I’m 74, got my last job at 69. I often talk with 50+ job hunters who ask my advice about how to deal with age.. which is….ignore it, & don’t hide it.
    one reason is you won’t waste time trying to dance around it and the other is you want to know who cares and who doesn’t. That’s useful information If they care, you’re view should be the flip side, don’t care about them, you don’t want to work there.
    Ironically I got my degree late in life, and if I included the date I got my degree, I’d be 20 years younger than those who do that math would expect me to be.
    Not only did the guy disclose his concern about his age to a middle man he compounded the problem by saying it was a negative…it’s also a positive if you position it.
    My prior life was IT, about 45 years counting IT recruiter. Yes the NW with their start up snotty and shortsighted attitude age discriminates..Look for the adults. Start your own business or become an IT recruiter where your experience has value, place decision makers in these companies who will owe you one, and if you want to grind yourself into dust, you’ll have an in and they’ll hire you.

  36. @Nick
    Yes this very large software company claims their review database is “locked” between review periods. As all software geeks like me will know – this is nuts, but they will not budge.

    Yes, as CAT confirmed, the legal requirement is 180 days from the incident and this can be increased on a state by state basis. I did get a lawyer and the response was they were legally in the right even if their ethics were suspect.

    @CAT – as I said above I did have a lawyer. When we went to the state to file they would not take the case because they claimed, in a phone call of course and refused to put it writing, that they had ruled the 180 days must be from the incident. The lay-off was a result of the incident and not the point of the incident. Even though the HR Department agreed it was in the wrong and would change it – they created a 180 day delay which legally let them off. Which goes to show corporate lawyers are way smarter than employees.

  37. @SteveG: Sometimes I think half or more of all enterprises succeed in snowing investors, employees, government and the public with such outlandish technical pronouncements… and no one challenges them.

    “Our database is locked for six months!”

  38. Does age discrimination exist? Of course it does, even in large corporations where they claim otherwise.

    However, I am nearing 74 and still working time as a consultant. When I am applying for a position, I don’t even think about whether my age is an issue. If you think about age, you will fail interviews because your concern will show. It will give the interviewer something to think about and a reason to reject you. If you show confidence and the belief that you are the best fit for the job, you will survive and get jobs.

  39. @Pat: I wrote an entire article (a long one) that said exactly what you said. You said it faster and better. Thanks! And since I’m not 74, you said it more convincingly!

  40. Here’s a somewhat harsh but honest description of how the original questioner’s note hits me:

    “Perhaps the only negative in my candidacy, which I feel I must address here so that it’s out in the open, is my age. I am 64 years old, which I’m sure will strike many as too old.”

    Now that you mention it, perhaps something related to your age should be my concern, since it’s your concern. Why are you so concerned about it?

    “I can assure you that in my case it is not. I’m in excellent health, I still walk 36 holes [of golf] several times a season, I play singles tennis three times a week,”

    OK you exercise — great, but what about the job I need done? And are you going to cut out of work early to get in 36 holes?

    “I write my columns and blogs in my spare time,”

    I’m not impressed with this bit of writing, and not eager to see more.

    “and my clients never even think about my age.”

    How could you know?

    “Other than continually losing arguments with my wife,”

    So you’re not going to be a good negotiator and can’t state a convincing case — even to someone you know well.

    “I show no signs of slowing down,”

    so you’re hiding the signs?

    “and fully intend to keep working full-time for at least another decade.”

    Good luck with that — I’m not finding any reason to hire you for a week, never mind years.

    “There you go. It would be unfortunate if chronology worked against me, for no valid reason.”

    You didn’t tell me anything I care about. I want to know if you can do the job and do it well. You told me you’re an active person who may be hiding the fact he’s slowing down. You told me that you’re a poor negotiator who makes sexist wife jokes disguised as compliments (ie. everyone knows husbands should win arguments). What will you say when you’re not trying to make a positive impression? I’m not interested – but not for the reason you think. With all your years of experience, you’re still unable to provide relevant positive information to a potential employer. I’m going to assume you’re not very good with people and perhaps a slow learner. Sorry!

    Talk about the job and the hard and soft skills required (and hopefully available from this applicant) would make a much better first impression.

    Good luck to everyone searching!

  41. @Lynne – I think you have actually understood the issue. All the original question did was focus on what the hiring team were thinking regardless of your ability to do the job. Proving you can do the job is the easy part, dealing with this unspoken elephant in the room is the issue people over 50 are facing.

    The challenge is if you are the one who opens the door to an age discussion then the issue of your age is on the table and available as a valid issue to be addressed.

    The joke that I find is having a recruiter and hiring manager tell me they are looking for someone who is going to stay the distance and be there for 10 to 15 years. Yet after finding their “ideal fit” they are reposting the same position every 12 months or less. Einstein’s definition of insanity is alive and well for many seeking the correct fit because of the fact they are looking for someone with 30 years of experience but want to find it in a 35 year old.

  42. “It would be unfortunate if chronology worked against me, for no valid reason.”

    Let’s give a round of applause for telling it like it is. I’m 58 and age has been working against me for 25 years now, among other things. I still keep my head down, do my job as best I can and look for opportunities where available.

    I’ve never worked with a good headhunter, but I can well imagine that not only will they know (as AM says) “… “companies A, B and C will never hire someone your age, so don’t waste your time there, but companies X, Y and Z don’t age discriminate, and need someone with your skills”, they will also know which companies have other agendas: D, E and F put diversity before qualifications, and couldn’t hire a white guy if they had to. The HR guys at G, H and I think Vietnam vets are all homeless and drugged out while recent sandbox vets are all PTS time bombs waiting to go off. Are you a male? Forget J, K and L. The list goes on.

    The problem, as we all have discovered, is that there is a crop of so-called head hunters out there who are barely aware of English as a spoken language, are really just recruiters scouring the job boards for low hanging fruit, and hoping that if they stumble on the right candidate, they will become a recruiter for some firm to lazy to do its own recruiting.

    (Maybe being a bitter old man is holding me back as well. Nah. A good hiring manger could look past that.)

  43. “If you show yourself to be highly qualified and personable, any company would be crazy not to hire you.”

    That’s funny. I’ve been told more than a few times, that I was PERFECT for the job – only to get a letter stating someone else was a “better fit.” Meaning I was to nice, too funny, too smart, and old enough to be the interviewer’s mother. Who wants their mother as a subordinate?

    Yes, I have a lot going for me, and I get plenty of “work,” but not with an employer retirement plan and benefits. Being freelance or a consultant is not the same as being an employee, and some people can’t see themselves as anything else.

  44. @L.T. I have to say I really have stopped wasting time with the off-shore recruiters using VoIP to claim they are in places like New Jersey, but at least they use real names and not Tom, Dick or Harry to westernize themselves. It is even funnier when those in NJ have no idea what the Super Bowl is.

    @Barbara – you hit a great legal excuse for ageism – benefits. My state’s unemployment team told me that the financial burden of older employee’s benefits is an allowable reason to terminate or lay-off these staff. We are talking about family people with probably several kids under 26. Given my “affordable” healthcare is now more than my mortgage with a deductible that could by a new car – I can understand why.

    This is also why almost 100% of the recruiters L.T. discussed are offering contracts at rates which are extremely low for the skills required but always without any benefits – medical, dental, holidays, vacation or anything except they process you on a W2.

  45. @L.T.

    “I’ve never worked with a good headhunter, but I can well imagine that not only will they know …”

    We speak of purple squirrels on the candidate end, but I contend that the purple squirrels happen on the other end as well ;-)

  46. Ever try to make an online resume with Linked-in or Monster. The process requires you to put in a start and/or end date. The only way you can obfuscate your age is not putting in older experience. The job boards are bent this direction of skirting age discrimination,

  47. Our vaunted CEO of the United States is using the bully pulpit to get the nation’s CEOS to hire the long term unemployed. Maybe he should divert some of the spy talent from the NSA into selecting potential corporate targets for age discrimination. Recruit from FBI etc. to start a sting operation and clean up corporate america and wall street.

  48. Nick,

    Your answer made my blood boil. I really believe your advice is off target. After 12 years of job search both as a recruiter and as a potential employee, I have come to believe that age is on hiring manager’s minds in close to 100% of new jobs even if interviewers can’t talk about it openly. Pitching oneself on the value we bring won’t get it done. Anybody who doesn’t account for this fooling him or herself.

    Here are some personal examples:

    1) I applied to four jobs I was easily qualified for. One required only 1 year’s experience. I followed up all four applications with a phone call. All the recruiters were angry that I applied and refused to present me to their clients. They told me they feared that I would leave the job quickly for something bigger. One recruiter told me he had never seen a more experienced worker apply for a job below his experience level. Try this yourself: Follow up a resume submission with a phone call and listen to what you get. Selling yourself on value and skills did not work.

    2) In a recent interview for interim work, the hiring manager said he was going to throw my resume away. He said my resume was not worth looking at since I was certainly qualified for the job. Eventually he said he realized I was an employee near retirement who may want to make a little extra money.

    3) A contract recruiter told me that when a job requirement says 5-8 years experience they will lose the contract if they present someone to the employer with 9 years experience. You have to understand why they have to honor this. Contract recruiting is a highly competitive business with dozens if not hundreds of recruiters approaching firms.

    4) Another contract recruiter told me that the hiring manager was in his 30’s and the work group is a cohesive group of 20 somethings. They do not want to disrupt things by adding someone as old than their parents to the work unit.

    5) Yet another contract recruiter I worked with told me that age discrimination is quite open but they can’t really talk about it openly.

    6) In another recent interview for interim work, the lady kept saying the job required a lot of energy. She would not believe that my working 10 hours a day and commuting 2 hours each way a year earlier did not require a lot of energy.

    7) In 2007, I got a new job after applying to several thousand. Virtually all the employees on the new job were past 50 so I realized this was one of few employees that considered older workers.

    8) In 2012, I got a new job. Later in the year, the CEO who hired me confessed over a dinner that he was surprised someone older than him would be applying for a position.

    9) In reviewing web sites on age discrimination, I see that virtually all age related law suits are because of promotions, wrongful discharge, or some on the job conduct. I have not seen any evidence that an age discrimination case was won on hiring practices.

    We who are 60+ need to figure out a way to get past this thinking. Pitching ourselves on value is not good enough. I have some ideas but would like to hear others.

  49. @JBS
    As noted earlier…I’m now 74. I’ve worked at a small private company as a recruiter for over 5 years. I was 69 when I was hired, by a 30 year old President.

    We don’t have age on our minds, or gender etc. We only care about value-add.

    There’s nothing special about us in this regard. I’m working in a hot industry where demand is high for talent..

    A # of your examples are working through middlemen recruiters who are looking for a sale.

    Yes there’s age discrimination, but that means you have to look harder…for someone who doesn’t give a hoot about age.

    Nor should you. If your fret about it, it effects your search, your presentation, your confidence.

    I tell job hunters don’t hunt for jobs, hunt for companies. That’s why job hunting is a job. It entails a lot of research in this case to find companies who don’t worry about age, and then when you do network into them.

    Not easy, but not impossible. They are out there.

  50. Don – that is an awesome story. This is what we are all told to do. For some reason I have not yet met a company president who has the guts to do this. I have almost been hired several times by a company presidents only for them to do something like:
    1) ask the Director of HR to go through the motions of interviewing me as well. Without reporting her decision she rejected me and instead hired three people to do the work. Later I was told all three were a disastrous hire resulting in them each being terminated.
    2) allowing various team members to meet/interview me. Each group wanted to see me in relation to their team’s work and not the company’s C-level position which this was. Thus they all saw me unsuited to be in their special team. Rather like telling Jeff Bezos he can’t work at Amazon because he isn’t a brilliant coder, a web developer, a fulfillment manager or any of the other roles.

    The issue for me is in almost all cases you cannot easily find a hiring manager who is now allowed to hire without someone less qualified in that role’s requirements being involved. In an earlier post here I said a director of a large health cooperative who wanted to hire me was told by the recruitment team he was forced to use that his choice of candidates to hire from was not his to dictate.

    It appears to me that 90% or more of the current recruitment systems seem really screwed up. Outsourced and internal recruiters are not seeking talent and skills but using keywords plus questionable stereotypes to find the amazing “good fit.”

    Sadly I do not believe the CEO of the USA or the CEO of any other large companies present for that speech are big enough to change anything. This poor recruitment ethic being discussed here is too strongly engrained.

    BTW I did note Wal-Mart and McDonalds were repeatedly talked about as companies who were agreeing to employ the long-term highly qualified unemployed.

    So start practicing – welcome to our store and/or would you like fires with that :-)

  51. I’m 60 and have gray hair, can’t color anymore and frankly don’t want to. I get plenty of interviews but some people have said they want someone who wants a career..the he had gray hair…enough said. Sometimes it could be politics..ya know kinda heard that…people my age are retiring. So I still have two more years for social security so I’ll take it soon er than later I suppose. So sick of it.

  52. Age discrimination is illegal, but it is alive and well and thriving. I’m an “older” worker (ie, not fresh out of college or just within that magic 3-8 years of experience). I have long removed the dates of graduations from my résumé, removed years of experience, changed my résumé to a functional format (so they see my skills, not where I have worked nor for how long). But I can’t hide my age–I don’t look 25, and I wouldn’t want to be 25 again. Well…maybe….but only if I could be 25 and know what I know now.

    Employers want experience, someone with a work ethic, who has critical thinking and problem solving skills. But they don’t want to hire older workers. So what gives? They want the experience (the younger workers complain that employers won’t even look at them despite internships and volunteering because they lack the work experience, but when older workers apply, they reject them too, despite having what employers say they want).

    I had one hiring manager tell me that he can tell when applicants are older because they do exactly what we’ve told to do–remove the graduation dates from our résumés, don’t put them in on our applications, change up our résumés. So either way, they can tell and we get rejected because we’re “too old”. It is illegal but most employers are very savvy today and know better than to tell applicants outright that they were not interviewed or not hired because they’re over 35 or 40. The reason given is that bland, generic “not a good fit for us”, or “someone else was a better fit”. It is very hard, nigh impossible, to prove age discrimination. As much as courts don’t like pretexts (saying that the candidate was a poor fit when you really meant too old), especially if it is poorly done, but courts also hate hate hate to get involved in day-to-day business decisions, including who businesses hire, unless businesses are stupid enough to say or document that candidate A wasn’t hired because he’s black, because she’s Jewish, because she’s 35 (too old). “Poor fit” covers a lot of sins and gets them off the hook.

    I’m working part time now, and nearly all of my colleagues are in my age range or older. There’s only one who is significantly younger–in her mid-twenties. After her, the rest of us are mid/late 40’s and older. I don’t know if the result would have been the same had my colleagues all been younger than me–maybe they wouldn’t have wanted to hire an older person.

    The funny thing about age is that none of us escape it. We all get older, so that 30 year old kid manager is going to be 45 someday, and I would hope that he realizes that just getting older doesn’t mean slow, stupid, or not up to date. Many of my colleagues are just as tech-savvy as the youngest among us, and we all learn from eachother because technology changes so quickly.

    At the same time, I’m frustrated. I genuinely like my colleagues and my job isn’t bad. But….I’d like a full time job with better pay and benefits, and I’m beginning to fear that it won’t be an option for me, between the HR big data and the prejudice against older workers. And I’m nowhere near being ready to retire–I still have a good 20 or more years to work. When I was young (teenager and early 20’s) it was hard to find that first job because I didn’t have experience, but someone was willing to take a chance on me. I have a strong work ethic, and I’m willing to learn. I remember hoping that I’d never have to worry about that again (lack of experience), and in my youthful ignorance never thought that too much experience (age) would bring the same result–no one willing to take a chance on me.

  53. I was recently turned down for my “dream job,” for which I met or exceeded every one of their stated requirements, in addition to having a strong proven interest in the industry, because I was “overqualified,” or so said the interviewer young enough to be my daughter.

    So I used my ATH interviewing techniques and went on to get a different job (also with a startup) for which I didn’t have the experience, but which pays 2-3X the first job, and turns out to be more fun, with much nicer, more grown up, people.

    As real and terrible as age discrimination is, ultimately only we can help ourselves, and we can do that through the difficult challenge of managing our attitude and staying positive in the face of adversity. It really clicked for me when I was about to vent (about what I felt was my initial, age-based rejection) to a friend who happens to be black and gay. I stopped myself, and realized … what am I doing? Here is a black, gay man somehow making it in corporate America. (And doing quite well.) How dare I complain?!

  54. “It is not illegal for an employer or other covered entity to favor an older worker over a younger one, even if both workers are age 40 or older,” so says the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission website.

    However, some states do outlaw age discrimination in the hiring process. Washington State law (RCW 49.44.090) states “It shall be an unfair practice: (1) For an employer or licensing agency, because an individual is forty years of age or older, to refuse to hire…”

  55. Ignore my previous post as it is incorrect.

  56. @marybeth,

    Your post describes the frustration of millions. There seems to be a credibility problem among employers. We want experience, but not too much! You can’t stay at one job too long or you’ll stagnate, but we don’t want job hoppers either! And the list goes on…

  57. @AM – I love your story! Congratulations on finding that oh-so-much better job, and especially on being able to put your situation into perspective. I’m sure that was part of your good luck.

    “…ultimately only we can help ourselves, and we can do that through the difficult challenge of managing our attitude and staying positive in the face of adversity.”

    May your guidance illuminate the paths of many.

  58. @AM: Thanks for sharing your story and for reminding us all that sometimes a reality check is needed. I was watching C-Span this am as I was getting ready for work, and someone had called into the show to counter some of the previous callers who blamed the unemployed job hunters for being “too picky, too lazy, too stupid, too uneducated, too unskilled and there must be something wrong with them” and more to be attractive to employers. After all, they’d gotten jobs, no problem. This caller said that he was in his late 50’s, had worked hard, followed the rules his entire life, only to have the rug yanked out from under him (his company outsourced many jobs to India and China, he lost his job and hasn’t been able to find another one. He’s lowered his expectations, has been willing to work (at Wal-Mart, even), has kept up his tech skills, etc., but nothing. He said there’s a saying: “It is nothing when someone you don’t know loses his job, it’s too bad when your neighbor loses his job, but it’s a tragedy when you lose your job”.

    Yes, certain groups face even more challenges getting hired, but older workers are one of those groups. I’m glad that you found an employer who was willing to hire for skills and didn’t get distracted by, or let prejudices about age prevent him from hiring you. It is nice to know that there are still some employers who don’t consider it a bad thing, but your employer is rare.

  59. There’s lots of age discrimination. I had a headhunter interview last week and after 10 minutes the recruiter said the hiring manager was looking for someone with 5 years of experience. I felt like saying “Then why are you calling me because I clearly have more experience than that listed on my resume. Do the math.”

    Some hiring managers don’t know what they don’t know and are threatened by someone who obviously knows more than them. They don’t have enough foresight to determine if someone is going to drive profit and they’re just looking to hire someone they get along with….someone with similar experience….someone in their own image.

  60. Experience discrimination? KS brings up an interesting point. When a position announcement states a minimum years experience, can it really mean “maximum” years experience? Is it a subtle way of saying we do not want a person with more than five years experience? Perhaps it is not age discrimination but rather experience discrimination?

  61. I am a white woman 46 in a field of mostly men, technology,cloud etc..there definitely is age discrimination going on when interviewing. I was looking for a job about a year ago. When I would interview with women I would get through but as soon as I met a younger man, I never got to the next step. Lastly, I have a friend who is a director at Google and I asked her if she could help get me in. She told me HR won’t even talk to me as they want to grow there own! meaning I am too old to grow:) Just recently I was on a call with one our top women executives who was just hired, she told the audience they will be bringing in fresh young people to help create a cool feel! WOW! from a 50 yr old woman no less! I sympathize but keep going and talk to every contact on linkedin you have, that is how I landed a job that I wanted but with a company that wouldn’t be my first choice.

  62. Today’s recruiters absolutely stink. I am writing this with my fingers on a phone standing in line at the airport, so please excuse any errors. Undoubtedly my problem is my age and incompetent people known as recruiters. I have recently begun looking for another job as I am moving to Florida, California or Texas. I am 55 and I have a high level position in KC, MO with a large, financial services company. My home is for sale and I am moving from the state known as Missouri. I am the Director / Manager of a division that I started 6 years ago from scratch. We now have 12 employees under me and we had revenue of $24 million in our division in 2013. I have an extensive history of success and I have been to law school and I earned have 8 “certifications”- over the last 10 years. My point is that I am no rookie, have a great amount of experience in sales, management, and 5 other areas. I bring a lot to the table & have numerous awards and I am a published author.

    What I have experienced over the last year with “recruiters” has been an ugly, incompetent, frustrating experience. Whether it is “inside” recruiters – or “outside, retained” recruiters, I have been very, very unimpressed. The ignorance, youth, stupidity, lack of preparation and total malaise of the folks I have interviewed with has been mind boggling. For reasons that I cannot fathom, most of these companies will have the interview process begin with low level, flunky. Instead of interviewing with a peer or the direct manager, they have a young person perform the initial interview. A young person that has not ever read my resume nor looked at the 3 hyperlinks that I send them in preparation for the interview. A person who doesn’t know how to diagram a sentence or a paragraph on the chalkboard in front of a nun. I have taken the advice of professional resume writers and also have a web site that showcases my “brand” and capabilities. All of the advice that I have read on The Ladders & LinkedIN — I have done it all. Fortunately, I do have a job in KC and if I can’t get another in those state I mentioned, I will just stay put. I feel sorry for the millions of folks that are age 40 and above who are unemployed or underemployed. To be subject to the semi literate vicissitudes of these so called “recruiters” must be very frustrating. It is like a nuclear physicist interviewing with a 4th grader. Below is just one, very typical, experience that I have encountered

    Recently, I had a 10:00am appointment with a “retained” recruiter at a large, national, agency. I was somewhat surprised that the young woman was actually willing to meet with me face to face. In preparation for our appointment, she asked me to send her information on myself so that she “may better know me” – when I arrived for my appointment. In addition to my resume, I included 3 hyperlinks in my email. One is a link to an article (with my photo) that I had published on Yahoo Finance. This is an excellent chance to learn about my excellent writing capabilities and it showcases my knowledge of financial services / insurance & marketing.

    The second link was an article about me and my career (with a nice photo). It succinctly describes my career transition (5 years ago) and talks about my previous 17 years with a large legal publishing company.

    The 3rd link was to my, LinkedIn profile which lists degrees, accomplishments, awards, certificates, licenses etc. If one were to spend ten minutes on those links, they would know all about me and what I bring to the table. I also included links to 5 jobs that were recently posted that I think would be perfect for me. I wanted to give her an idea of the kind of work that I am looking for.

    When I arrived at the interview, the 26 year old girl began asking me some very basic questions. I asked, did you take the time to read the email (which she had requested) that I sent with the résumé, links, information, etc? She replied, “No, I never waste my time reading anything that a candidate sends to me. I have had candidates not show up for interviews and I decided long ago that I would not waste my time reviewing anything a candidate sends me — until after they visit with me.” Though I did not show it, I was livid, disappointed & disgusted with her total lack of professionalism. Had she spent 10 minutes reading what I had sent her, we could have spent the hour long interview discussing more substantive issues; items that would have allowed her to place me in a position.

    Once again I was less than impressed. BTW, she knew absolutely nothing about the industry for which I was interviewing.

    Because of today’s online method of applying for jobs, 99% of all of my submittals never reach a human that can actually read it. Sometimes, within 60 seconds of submitting an (online) application, I will receive a rejection letter. The computer calculates my age and, being over 40, I get rejection emails within a minute. If only my resume could get to the head of Google…
    I know that recruiters reading this will react violently, but I suggest they go to this web site and read 100’s of horror stories that professionals have experienced vis a vis these so called recruiters:

  63. BTW, I mentioned above that there are 12 employees under me. Every single employee I have hired over the last 6 years has been after 3 interviews – with three candidates each time. Never took more than a week (after advertising the job) and they have worked out wonderfully. They range in age from 30 to 60 years. I don’t understand today’s companies interviewing folks for months at a time and, often, never making a hire! I believe these hiring folks get into a mode known as “analysis paralysis.” They just can’t pull the trigger.

  64. I am 60 years old and looking for a job. I applied for a position through a
    headhunter. The headhunter got back to me and said. “Even though you are
    a perfect fit for the job the employer feels you are too old “. Is this legal because it was done through a headhunter.

  65. @Andrew: Proving discrimination is difficult. The headhunter you refer to is an idiot who seems to think this is just routine business and perfectly fine. It’s not. I understand your question – is the employer insulated from it because there’s a headhunter in between? I’m not a lawyer so I can’t answer that, but in my lay opinion, the employer has a problem if the hh testifies! Your least costly option is to contact your state’s department of labor and employment. Ask them. I wish you the best – because this sucks.

  66. I just came across this thread again. I think Nick’s advice is basically right on, although it is more relevant to jobs where value-added is the overriding factor, or at least should be, in hiring. But there are exceptions.

    My background is in public relations, where image is critical, and not objectively measurable, like value. A company or organization in many markets and localities desires “front people” who convey a particular image and nothing more because their functions are not perceived as being critical to the bottom-line success of the organization.

    For example, a real estate developer doing projects in a heavily minority community will usually hire a person of color to open doors with local politicians and community leaders. Once the doors have been opened, the developer cuts his deals with various parties based strictly on money. But they need to get that door opened. Therefore, the value-added they will seek is a younger, more diverse candidate.

    Or a PR agency needs a young account executive to pitch stories to the media because today it is dominated by bloggers and online editors who are young themselves. Having spent years in the PR business, I can tell you that vibe and relationships are as important as the intrinsic value of the story being pitched.

    A lot of it comes down to organizational culture. Here in LA, where entertainment and other creative industries dominate, the culture is young and diverse. Older white men have a more difficult time overcoming those attitudes, except when they offer very unique value (such as being a well-respected expert in a particular field). It’s harder for generalists.

    That’s why I stopped looking for jobs and rebranded myself as an expert in a particular field with a great depth of knowledge. I often find myself in the background, advising the client, and not interacting with their publics.

  67. I turned 63 this year and this has been the hardest year to find a job. I get calls all the time from recruiters and have had several interviews (mostly phone screens), but no offers. I find phone interviews more difficult than in person. A google search on my name and city alone will bring up records that reveal my age. I think this should not be legal for public records to be scraped and published so freely, but it would all come out in a background check anyway. I have thought a lot about leaving traditional work behind and becoming an independent consultant, where I think my experience would be more an advantage. However, I miss the team experience and I need a regular income for a few more years. I think Nick’s point is very good that you have to focus on your value. But I never knew I had to present a business plan to prove my value during an interview. Of course I try to highlight my strengths and what I can bring to the table. I guess I will have to work harder on my presentation.

  68. @ Beth
    Soldier on. There’s work life out there for you. Since age 55 I found and changed jobs (not voluntarily) several times, landing the last one at age 69. (I’m 75.5 now).
    Nick’s right, focus on your value and job content. or stated another way, ignore age. If anything make your age clear…because you are looking for companies where age is of no import, and the related experience is high value. That means you’ll be ignored, rejected, and kiss a lot of frogs, Set expectations accordingly and flip the view…that you are assessing their business smarts, rather than them testing yours. companies that ignore you because of age, aren’t worth your time, and move on.
    And think about killing 2 birds with one stone. Yes put together a business plan and value proposition and test it out where and when ever you can. 1st because hardly any candidates are that well prepared, they just do resumes, so you will be memorable, 2nd because de facto you will be trying out your consulting collateral, which may get you a contracting gig, and/or help you fine tune the collateral by testing it on the market, preparing you for being independent. So hang in there. Persistence wins. Don

  69. If you can’t find anything as an employee, consider contracting. Most firms don’t need more managers. They need people who can do the work. Focus on the dollars and forget the title.

  70. I am 64 and have been unemployed for years. If I had to mention age discrimination on the jobs I applied to, it would literally go on for miles. I can count on three fingers in the last five years, the times the phone actually rang for a job. I am well educated ( 3 university degrees)outgoing,and funny, but, due to no job I live in poverty. How do you make the ” kids” hire you??

  71. @ Ellie, scroll up a bit. You’ll see I’m 75, and when I was about your age, I retooled my career into another direction..recruiter.
    From your note one can assume one possible’ve been playing the game by the usual rules…applying then waiting for a response. You can’t MAKE the kids hire you, but you can make it a good idea.
    Hunt for companies, not jobs. You apply to jobs, but you research companies, and in your case, look for evidence that they don’t care about age..define what you could bring to that company, via the research and networking find a person who would be interested in your value add, and try and contact them directly. Not about a what you do best may not yet have solidified into a job…but what you can do for that person(s). in short put your energy into network building and development. You’ll find people who value the experience, not the birthdays. See what you can do for these people, networking is all about giving ,as much as getting. and work your evolving network. If someone can’t bring you into a company at this time, don’t be shy about asking them if they can refer you to someone who’d like to know you, and hear what they’ve heard.
    Don’t be discouraged. You’ll find that people really want to help…but you have to help them help you. Give them something to work with beyond a resume, give them a good sense of where you believe you add value to a company, thereby turning them into advocates for you. Your own sales team.
    Hang in there and have a great 2015! Don

  72. I stumbled across this site looking for something else. However, the age issue in hiring is very much alive. I’ve been trying to get a job for 2 years. I’ve applied for 100’s….yes 100’s of jobs that are minimum wage jobs and I don’t even get a call. I’ve had very few interviews and then they were all with someone half my age. I’m a professional with a finance background and have much to offer any joy. Applications have many ways of determining a person’s probable age. You cannot convince me that age discrimination is not real. I worked for a seasonal job about a year ago for only a couple of months. When we had orientation on the first day there were approx 30 people who were hired. I was the only person in the room over the age of 30 (most were young 20’s). That was proof to me that age discrimination is real. P. S. That was the only job I’ve been able to get in over 2 years. I even follow up with employers to show my interest and still nothing. This is unbelievable.

  73. @Linda: Oh, age discrimination is real. It’s why I write so much about it and try to share ways to get past it that are based on ways to get the employer’s attention.

  74. Seeing this posting made me feel so sad but at least I know I’m not crazy. I’m career executive assistant with over 40 years of experience. I have kept up and excelled at new technologies in the workplace, but nevertheless, I was part of RIF in August and at 62, I’m going through the drill of looking for my next long-term assignment. I was so positive at first because every past job search that yielded an interview that resulted in a job offer. In fact, I usually had a few offers on the table and had the luxury of leveraging those offers to hike pay and/or benefits. Fast forward…. I still get many invitations to interview and then its radio silence or “You weren’t the right fit.” I’ve got a spread sheet to track over 100 resumes I’ve submitted since August. It’s interesting to note that I often see that a job for which I interviewed was filled and then a month or so later, it back up on the recruitment boards. I guess they chose the wrong candidate — probably one that was younger and cheaper, but as the saying goes… “you get what you paid for.” Sadly, I am now convinced my age has everything to do with not getting those offers. However, I refuse to be forced into early retirement. Someone out there has to see the value in our expertise, experience,and the many skills we mature individuals bring to the table.

  75. @ Laura Ann. Hang in there. You’re just a kid. I’ve had 6 or 7 jobs since 55 the last I picked up 6 years ago at 69.

    Sure there’s age discrimination, been there done that. What can you do about it? Your last sentence is key. Persist! You’re in sales now, selling you inc. and persistence is a big part of sales success.

    And in your plan…as far as age goes, just ignore it. that is, skip the advised subtle (or Not) ways to hide age. Hang it out there because you’re looking for companies and managers who at the least don’t care about age, and best those who value it and the applicable experience.

    In other words don’t obsess about it, because age aside, you have all the other job hunting issues, activities, tactics & planning you need to focus on.

    Most important, in this blogs archives you’re going to find a wealth of information and advice on things you do need to focus on.

    For example your note refers to recruitment or job boards. That direction may be one reason you’re spinning wheels. Redirect your energy to getting to hiring managers and convince them of your worth.

    Don’t be discouraged because it sounds like you’re getting interviews. Every interview is a win from a networking standpoint, in that you leave having personally met a hiring manager or HR recruiter who is one step removed. If you collect business cards, and/or contact information, you have the foundation for a growing network. Circle back around in about 2-3 months to people you’ve interviewed with, particularly when you’ve seen them repost a job. If you’ve seen jobs reposted (note they may be reposted because they may be trolling for names)

    I’m a corporate/inside recruiter these days. I can assure you that following up is a good use of your time. There’s several people walking around the company I work for, because they persisted, kept raising their hand..which I equate to interest and follow up. Both of which are key performance attributes of any job.

    Hang in there and keep hammering away. I can’t guarantee success, but if you don’t I can guarantee low probability of success.

  76. @ Laura Ann
    On reflection let me expand and hopefully be more encouraging.

    I know it’s easy to say “ignore your age” but it’s an acquired skill. You need to do so to manage your search for a new adventure.

    I didn’t make clear that the jobs I got after 55 & onward were via networking, not via what I’ll call the convention approach, job boards, applying etc. though I did so and got a few interviews.

    Yes there’s age and all kinds of job hunting unfairness. And they are most likely to be found when you hunt conventionally, strangers reading your paper, strangers screening and interviewing you, People who don’t know you, and can’t or won’t take the time to really do so, to understand where you’d add value to their enterprise. The conventional and it’s foundation of anonymity lends itself perfectly to dependency on hypothetical images and stereotypes, because it has no solid information to go on.

    The reason I suggested that you’d do well to pour over this blog …and the wealth of information in the archives is because this blog/Nick’s core approach is not conventional, but networking based, sort of to learn to be your own recruiter.

    The conventional approach can give the illusion of productivity, i.e you can pump out a lot of applications in a short period of time. But the return on investment is low..i.e. a low probability of success, for anyone, not just those of us blessed with age. It’s a high volume low margin business model.

    The networking approach and the philosophy in this blog is a low volume high margin approach. Building and maintaining, and deploying a network takes a lot of effort, and well fits the homily that looking for a job is a full time job in itself. Lot of research, lot of leg/phone/cursor work, lot of planning. Conventional is like wielding a shotgun hoping you’ll hit something, networking is a laser beam.

    Why networking is better, and particularly better for older workers worrying about age is because it’s like a filter. As you seek someone or somewhere where age doesn’t count, your networking filters out those where it does and where your time, energy, and hopes would be wasted. Leaving quality leads.

    And I’ve not heard it mentioned, but from experience, networking favors the older person. That is The older you get, (if you’ve been active and paying attention) the larger your network, and likely the percentage of quality contacts is higher. This may not be 100% correct but I think it’s a safe bet. For instance at 60, I had a much larger network to draw on than at 30. Everyone’s got a network, so do you. So you have a great tool, learn grow it, and use it.

    True, I had sinned. All people do. I lost touch with a lot of people. But I can tell you this from experience…There are very few people who don’t want to help…You can reach way back…and you’ll be pleasantly surprised to find people will reconnect with pleasure and be ready, and willing to help you..but you have to help them, help you but being clear about what you want..and I don’t mean “a job” I mean with your career, a desired direction, finding where you will get your mojo back.

    How to go about networking, and helping people help you…Dig around in this blog’s archives.


  77. On an application they ask the year you graduated from high school so how are you supposed to disguise your age?!

  78. @ Carmine. Don’t try & disguise your age. First as a hiring manager, job hunter and recruiter, I can tell you the disguise recommendations really don’t work that well.
    the inference is that somehow a job hunter will slip past some age bias, get an interview and then the company/hiring manager will be wowed and it won’t matter.
    If a company or hiring manager has that bias, the game’s over when you walk in the door.
    You’re looking for the people who really don’t care about age. So hang it out there, as it will save you a lot of time upfront. Because companies that respond to you, knowing your age, are clearly telling you as far as they are concerned it doesn’t matter.
    In the case of the application, turn your perspective around and view it as a tool to test them out as far as their biases.
    If you don’t hear from them, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are age biased, it could be a ton of other reasons. But if you hear from them, it will tell you what you need to know.
    (I speak from experience…I’m 75, and have done the job hunting thing since I was 55)

  79. @Carmine Willey: Disguise your age?? You’re listening to too many silly resume writers, career coaches and counselors. What happens when you show up for the job interview???

    The answer? What Don said.

  80. Pay attention to the aspects of job search you can control; age isn’t one of them. Don’t think/worry/speculate about what some company’s or recruiter’s biases may be or anything else going on on the other side of the conversation. Read this from the ATH web site for some great advice about attitude.

    Satchel Paige said: Age is mind over matter…if you don’t mind, it doesn’t matter.

  81. Don and Nick, Thank You. I am so grateful for this thread. I posted back in December that I was looking for a job at 63. I actually have been accepting short term contract jobs for several years. It’s taken its toll on me and my finances. I have recently accepted a permanent job with a large prestigious company and am starting Monday. What you said about making age a non-issue in my own mind, and leading with my great experience, really helped me to be at ease during the interview. It did help too that the managers who interviewed me were in my age bracket or pretty close. That told me that this company does not discriminate. I think also if you look around, there are a lot of older people working. It’s not so uncommon. Any company that has a high standard of integrity about how they do things is not going to discriminate. Good luck to all!

  82. @Beth. Great! the business upside of old is that it equals experience. we didn’t get old overnight and in the process learned a lot and have a lot to offer

  83. @Beth: Thanks for sharing your experience and success, and for reminding everyone that loads of older workers are working.

    @Chris Walker: Thanks for reminding me about that short article I wrote long ago!

  84. For many years, my resume got me immediate responses. And if I was interviewed, I usually got the job offer. Now, I do not receive the same responses, and I can’t think of any reasons other than age. I agree that I shouldn’t be defensive about it, but I really don’t feel my age, I am full of energy and have an excellent memory. I would like to work for many more years. Any advice?

  85. @Samia: I don’t think it’s your age, or at least it’s not just your age. Employers now have access to every resume on the planet, and recruiting is almost totally based on accessing resume databases. This actually increases the competition you face to levels formerly unknown. My advice: Learn to job hunt without a resume to reduce your competition. Search “resume” on this blog for how to do that.

  86. Say what you will, but I am like 75 next month but young acting and looking. I have been turned down for jobs I am qualified for for the last seven months but did get two offers but they were far to get to. I say you are dead meat on the highway, and the only way to get hired is if you have an “in” with someone already working there. You need to have saved enough money to survive and shoot for another way to get income.

  87. Hello,
    I have recently been laid off , am female, and 62. I can see where there has been age discrimination at many places I have applied. They usually allude to age by asking (with a giggle) “what are your plans 5 years from now, or 10 for that matter?”. I never considered myself as someone who would retire, and would like to keep doing what I enjoy, teaching in nursing education, for as long as I can. However, given we now have a woman 68 years old who may well be leading our nation, I find it difficult to understand age discrimination. . If Hillary Clinton can lead the country to possibly age 76, then the rest of us should be able to continue at our jobs too .

  88. One element that seems to be ignored here is the person who interviews you usually has their own personal agenda such as, protecting their job. Older applicants frequently are more qualified than those who are giving the interview. This often becomes apparent during the discussion when you are trying to sell yourself and the interviewer becomes defensive and begins to compete with you. Because of this, I feel that the whole hiring process is seriously flawed. Say what you want, no one wants to hire someone who in their eyes may take their job or be promoted over them. This is extremely frustrating. Nonetheless, I have experienced this during several interviews. It can be very depressing when you realize that the very people who are screening you are in fact deliberately working against you. You have no chance!


  89. @James: The problem is company culture. I know companies where managers seek out hires who know more than they do and gladly hire them and pay them more than the manager makes. It reflects well on the boss to have a phenomenal team. But it requires a company culture that promotes hiring talent. Nowhere is it written that a manager can’t pay someone more than the manager him/herself makes. The problem is company culture, and it’s widespread. Not easy to find, but worth looking for employers that welcome the best people.

    • I think age and race factor. I was advised to put in for a promotion by upper management. I have excellent ratings and recommendations. Suddenly the position was canceled. No one was selected. The feeling is that there is a diversity issue and the position will be filled toward that end. I have enough integrity to work with anyone and to be a leader to our customers. However I have little trust in management when the response is to suck it up and that’s the way politics work.

  90. Anyone who thinks its not our age has never been over 60 and unemployed. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do between now and social security. I could probably get a job as a Walmart Greeter, but that wouldn’t even cover my electricity bill. And the only difference between me at 60 and me at 35 is that I could run faster then. I’d be much better at a job now, if anyone would hire me.

    • @Karen – Ain’t that the truth! I am 61 and was laid off last December from a large media entertainment company. I had been with them for 20 years when there was a downsizing in our department. Now I can not even get an interview with any company – including the jobs I’ve been going for within the company I was laid off from. I can’t even get a call back for contract positions (I’m a digital designer and illustrator). Others who are younger with similar skills as me have been able to find employment. I am youthful in appearance due to my years of working around younger people. But I think it is an unconscious bias because the young hiring managers want to have someone they feel they can relate to – someone young and hip like them.

  91. I’m 63 and have worked most of my adult life. I was laid off and now no matter how beautiful my resume and cover letter is I can’t get a job. I’m about to forclose on my house and my daughter was willing to get a second job as well as her boyfriend to help support me. She’s in school and I don’t want to be the reason she gave up on her dreams. Her boyfriend works for IT so he helped me with making everything look amazing but still nothing. Age takes up a huge part of it regardless what a 35 year old says. If it didn’t older people wouldn’t be having a hard time getting a job. I’m able to anything a young person can do and if I don’t know how I’m 150% trainable. No reason someone younger that may be fired a month later for misconduct is better than me who hasn’t.

  92. I wish older job seekers the best of luck. It seems like a hell of a thing to go through, especially being at the mercy of non-competent HR / middle-man hiring staff nowadays. It really shouldn’t be hard – older people who adapt where really needed have lots of value. I guess by your 60’s you’ve been through a lot. You can get through this too.

  93. Hello I am having the same trouble. I am 64 years old with a C. Science degree since I was 25. Developer all my life in many languages and have been keeping up on the latest. I was laid off by my mutli national employer presumable cost reduction However I know they went and hired foreigners (H1-B) to fill the jobs. I was helping them with my work at the time. I saw the list of ages of who was laid off from just my dept and most were over 55. It was weird, they also gave me a glowing review couple of weeks before they laid me off. Not sure what to make of it. Were they just being sorry and nice to me?

    I get calls from headhunters but as soon as they get my name they can google me and find out my age. Even if I am good with their offered rate, they will not call me back. Most of them calling are Indian agencies supporting Indians. But I should go directly to companies.

    Anyway, my question is. How far back experience should I put on my resume. How does a 64 year old guy word a resume? I go up to the year 2000 and feel even that maybe too much. Or maybe I should change my resume to discuss management positions although I would hate it.

    Ive never been unemployed and never collected unemployment insurance till now. It was humiliating to say the least. The state is questioning me if I am looking for work and am I declining any jobs. Do they expect me to apply for work at McDonalds now?


  94. While I am late to this posting, I am not late to this subject. I have dealt with this (age discrimination) for the last 20 years (I just turned 65.) While Nick’s point of not making an issue about it either way is good advice, his attitude gives the impression that it’s not that big of a deal. I am here to tell you, IT IS!

    Age, along with making a “career transition”, “transferrable skills” and a whole host of other “soft” negatives are disqualifiers that are easy to use to reduce the stack of candidates. Every company, HR rep, hiring manager, etc. has an idea of what their ideal job candidate should look like and have as far as a background. If you don’t have it, your resume, application, interview will never happen. And an HR “professional” or headhunter will never pass you on to the next level because when you get face-to-face with the hiring manager and you are either too old, don’t have specific industry experience or training or the proper pedigree of employers in your background, the hiring manager is pissed off that their time has been wasted. And who is to blame? The headhunter that recommended you or the HR “professional” who ignored the hiring managers specifications and pass you on. None of those people want to take a chance and possibility have the hiring manager complain (bitterly) that the headhunter or the HR rep doesn’t know how to do their job.

    There are a basket full of reasons why older candidates are excluded, from making too much money to being a health risk. However, many hiring managers do not realize that many older candidates not only need to work, but want to work. And, unlike some younger employees, the older candidate most likely knows what is at stake and will appreciate the job, strive to do the best they can and be as professional as they were trained to be from earlier experience.

    But if you never get in the ballgame, you will always hit .000.

    • @Dirk: I never said (or implied) that age discrimination is not that big a deal. Please re-read my article. That’s why I suggest a lawsuit may be a necessary option.

      If we add it all up, age discrimination is practiced by employers that are stupid. Overall, I firmly believe that age+experience+knowledge always add up to more value. And stupid employers are missing the boat.

      That doesn’t help you, I know. What will help you is finding those few companies that aren’t stupid. Wish I could wave a magic wand so they’d quickly appear. They’re out there, though.

  95. I have a good resume and it’s real. High end finance. Had one series of interviews where I met with CEO and thought I’d be bold and mention my age. They kept me around for six week process so I could not say they discriminated against me.

    Beyond that I can’t get a sniff.

  96. Long story short: 60 years old-go for contract position- short term – organizing paper(young folks don’t want to touch paper) Too old to be in the office, in the back, shuffling paper? Enough! Time to volunteer, teach, train, and PARTY!

  97. Well, I am one of those poor sods who’s got a foot in the grave — ok, maybe just a toe, but what young whippersnapper realizes that distinction when looking at someone who’s older than his dad? Yet still I like what I do, and have the chops and experience to do it well. I’d just like to do it for someone else, now and for awhile.

    The discussion above seems top be a lot of moaning about the fact that Ageism exists, and how to circumvent some of it. Good luck.

    In fact, it happens because it’s beneficial for the hiring agents. Let’s face it, we old fogeys are bloody good at sniffing out managerial BS, are reluctant to put up with corporate hooliganism, and in general are both more knowledgeable and wiser than the young turks telling us what to do. We threaten them, just like their parents do : would you want to hire your Mom? She knows you too well.

    And if this sounds arrogant… well, maybe it is. But when I am not out fixing things, people come into my room and talk to me, telling me about their lives. I’ve learned how to listen, commiserate, and offer advice when solicited; otherwise just listen. Wisdom. Scary stuff for a manager.

  98. try and get employment at age 62 when all you did most of you life was home remodeling I am now 64 and I feel I don’t have a prayer working steady in the home remodeling game…40 + years of experience and the employer just laughs ( to himself ) kind of gets you mad when I know most of the younger guys are just there for a pay check and they have no pride in doing a good job that will last…just hurry and get this job done and move on to the next(more money)I’ve always took extra time to do a job right and rarely had to go back on job . I guess what i’m getting at is in todays world money rules over quality work so the younger and most likely faster guys get work and the “old” guys get put out to pasture so yeah age discrimination is alive and well in the USA and there really isn’t a thing anyone can do about it

  99. So someone, tell me what happens when you get the interview, they say they feel you would add value to their organization and bam. You are asked to do an application that asks when you graduated from high school and when you graduated and the application doesn’t allow you to skip the question or move on without answering. Hence you are truthful and the company that loved you and had so many openings go dark and you never hear from the company or the recruiter again. So there is no way to prove discrimination but let’s be real. I am a professional, 64 years of age and I don’t look my age. Everyone says I look in my 40s.

  100. I’m 63 with a narcissist as my supervisor. I’m not a psychologist, but she fits well within the DSM clinical description. In addition, she’s very much unqualified for her job and seemingly saw me as a threat the day she was hired. There’s no need to go into detail, but it’s been horrible. I’ve been trying to find a new position for over two years now with no luck.

    Only 15 years ago, I had recruiters contacting me, maybe, twice per month on average. I’d have companies contact me and offer me jobs based on my work and reputation alone. I was hired for nearly every position I had applied for throughout my life up until, well, this last go-round.

    My expertise in my field is more extensive than it was 15 years ago. My technical skills are cutting edge. My team leaderships skills are excellent. I’m as (actually more) motivated than I was 15 years ago. The quality of my work exceeds that of 15 years ago, and I can run circles around those much younger than me (both literally and figuratively).

    In most every way, I’m a better hire and more qualified than I was two decades ago when companies were bidding against each other to recruit me.

    Yet, with about 80 applications behind me over the past two years (all carefully researched to ensure a good match), I’ve landed a grand total of three interviews and nothing but rejections letters.

    It’s discouraging. Actually, it’s beyond discouraging.

  101. I put ” years” I worked for a company not DATES. ( 5 YEARS) ALSO….on the bottom of your resume put really fun and cool hip Interests and Hobbies. They will think youre experienced AND young!

  102. I am also 64 and newly out of work. Hint: STEM fields doesn’t necessarily equate to job security. As I have gone through this multiply times, this is my advice:
    Don’t give out your age, or have any mention of it in your cover letter or resume. Keep the experience in the resume to a maximum of 20 years (this will keep you looking experienced, but not older). Keep your appearance younger looking. Color your hair if it is gray or white. Men, get rid of the facial hair. Anything that makes you look younger will definitely help. Have a spring to your step and and good attitude. If asked, never mention your age, but let them know that you intend to work for many more years (lie through your teeth if you have to).

    • Unfortunately, all anyone needs is a name and location to look up your age. This has been my biggest challenge. Also, my name is uncommon, making it easier to find me and my age. I have successfully had some of the listings for me taken down, but this is a lot of footwork, and you are lucky if you can convince the company person to take it down. They will just say that it is public information.

  103. “I think your age is not the determining factor in getting a job. I think it’s a mistake to hide or emphasize age or to be defensive about it.”

    You may think it but you would be dead wrong. It is very very real I can assure you. Today if I have a phone number a name and an address I can get your age in fifteen minutes. So removing it from your resume won’t help. In silicon valley 50 is too old.

  104. Hello Brave Warriors!

    OLD PERSON HERE! I started working 1 month out of High School, 50+ years ago. I’ve gotten 5 jobs since March of 2020, after being dunked into the cold water of Unemployment, due to YOU KNOW WHAT! Yes, 5 jobs, at my age, with little knowledge of TECH. What I learned, many, many years ago, is that THERE IS NO FORMULA TO NAILING THE JOB! IT’S A TOTAL CRAP SHOOT! SO STOP TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT! STOP TRYING, because the list is long: Their mood that day, you’re way too old, you’re too young, you remind them of the one who just dumped them, you look just like their ex-wife/ex-husband, or the teacher who flunked them once, or they’re racist and hate Anglos, Latinos, Asians, Blacks, or your Squirrel-like face! Don’t ask if, why, me, them,… That’s dumb, because it wastes brain function!

    LISTEN TO THIS: I said the worst thing to an interviewer, not knowing she was the owner’s daughter, and she hired me. (“They’re insane, these employers!” I was thinking.) At one of the 5 recent jobs I snared, I tripped over a PIPE STICKING OUT OF THE CARPET! “OH! Someone forgot to put the upside down flower pot back over it!”, she said! I got the job! They’re crazy! I know! I worked in HR for 6 years, and the Director WAS A LUNATIC!

    If you’re starting to gnaw at yourself, and wonder if it’s you, your age, you’re lack of skills…then do something. You’re not going to like this but: Get a Makeover! Male or Female! NOT changing, for your own good, is SO Narcissistic! You’ll STILL BE YOURSELF! Surprise! Learn more, and much more, about EVERYTHING! I nailed one of the 5 jobs because the interviewer mentioned she wanted to retire and volunteer at an animal shelter. I piped up that I’d volunteered rehabing sick and injured wild creatures. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JOB, but I nailed it! Buy an iron, an ironing board and spray starch, and iron your shirts! Men and Women, please! Working in HR it was a wonder how people walked into the interview all wrinkled! It’s smacks of CHILDISH! I always dress like the best “Dressed For the Office” Vogue model in the mag. After I’m hired they never see that again. Dress a notch, or two, up even if you know they’re going to be clad in T-shirts! It’s not lethal.

    I’ve also learned that NOT GETTING THAT JOB WAS A BLESSING! I casually met someone who worked at a job I had SO coveted, and it turned out to be HELL ITSELF to work there. Try a new arena. Even if it pays less. I’ve been in HR, Service Industry, Telecommunications, Security, Critical Care Hospitals, Construction, Gaming, Senior Care…and I’ve learned so much more than I would’ve sitting in place, reading a How To book about all of the above!

    I finally got the job I’ve got now. Never seen the boss, phone and text only, we all love him, he’s like Charlie, of “Charlies Angels”. No stinking Video Call Interview, so they can see your wrinkles. No Assessment Test! No wardrobe check… None of that insane nonsense. Yes, I had the experience, but I’ve had the experience for several other jobs, where I did all of the above nonsense, yet the phone still aint ringing with a call from them. Now, I refuse to do Assessments! I now draw the line at 2 interviews! Three is full-on RUDE, WASTES MY TIME, DEODORANT, LAUNDRY SOAP, GASOLINE, PARKING FEE, BRIDGE TOLL, BUS/BART FARE, AND IT’S INSULTING. I’ve been hired at 3 interview jobs, and they’ve been the worst, because of the mindset that we’re all idiots and will do anything to keep the job.

    Out of the 5 jobs I secured, I had to quit 3 because, after asking the person training me, 2 specific questions, I knew they weren’t paying according to State Wage Law. I quit, and did my Civic Duty, and filed a BOFE, and the other DLSE form. That way the employees I left behind will finally get paid anywhere from $200-$400+ more per month as the DLSE demands them too. It’s sad that so many workers don’t know Labor/Wage Laws. All you have to do is call the DLSE. We taxpayers pay them, it’s free, and they absolutely loathe Wage Thieves, and pukie employers.

    One last toothless snarl, I learned long ago, as a teen, that the less work you do on the job, the more you get paid. That’s how crazy employers are. I read today’s job postings, and PEOPLE, WAKE UP! They’re combing 2-3 jobs into ONE! Don’t let them do that! After 5-6 duties, and after stating Fast Paced, and Hectic, and thrives under pressure…DON’T APPLY! STOP ALLOWING IT! I was getting over $12,000 in bonuses at a job that was excruciatingly easy. 1 or 2 calls a day, printed labels for the file boxes…I created my own job duties. DON’T GET USED, DON’T LET THEM TELL YOU YOUR TOO OLD IN THEIR OWN WAY. I JUST FILED A GRIEVANCE WITH THE DLSE, REGARDING AGE DISCRIMINATION, SIMPLY BECAUSE A YOUNG GUY WINCED WHEN HE SAW ME ON A PHONE INTERVIEW! A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER HE TOLD ME ALL THE JOBS HAD BEEN TAKEN. I GOT A CALL FROM THE DLSE AND THEY’RE WILLING TO COUGH UP SOME CASH! GOTTA DO SOME FIGURING AND THEY’RE GOING TO CALL ME BACK TO HEAR MY ASKING PRICE.

    I hope my snarling helped 1 or 2 of you! I’m going to miss the game once I finally stop going to work.

    Love you all!


    • @V Louisa: Wow! I dunno what’s in the water today, but you’re the second brassy woman to throw cold water on us all! What you’re doing throughout your multiple careers requires a special kind of enthusiasm, persistence and self-respect. It also requires being able to quickly brush away the B.S. to reveal what’s really going on and what really matters.

      You’re using the system more effectively than most. Thanks for sharing your experiences and advice!

  105. I’m over 60… and yes…game over. I got laid off and pushed into early retirement after a spin-off /merger, The dominant partner clipped all the redundant positions in preference of preserving its own work force.
    Despite my resume and experience, I cant get hired. Its not so much the old age… Its the experience (which comes with old age). We can command a premium. We try to extol a wine-budget in a beer-budget universe. That said; The primary reason age-discrimination thrives in the U.S. is because companies can get away with hiring 20 year old’s, who will stupidly do three times the work load at 1/3rd of the salary.

    Of course, none of this matters , if you have a gifted skill, which sets you apart from others. Alas, I wasnt dealt that card.

    For a while there, I thought my hearing was going bad; It turns out, the squeaky sound which was constantly groping my ears was actually the sound of my technical skills becoming obsolete; unable to cling anymore to my sense of self -efficacy in the working world.

    The reality is this. There are ‘crap’ jobs out there… As I am not above ‘working’…it behooves me to embrace them… Who knows where they might lead. Lately I have taken to the art and music world. I may be old, but I ain’t no Jason Pollack…

  106. I ran into the same issues starting at 63. My experience and reputation alone within specific industries would normally give me a leading edge. Unfortunately this did not happen yet and I feel at 64 that I have at least another 8-10 years left. That’s longer than most other younger less experienced candidate would stay. I applied for this one National position of which I was well known and respected within all of the customer base as well as internally. After three interviews I received the thank you letter. What have you got to loose employers? This age group realizes this is their last kick at the can and want to finish off with contribution, recognition to champion a positive legacy. These are the groups that should be contracted in a training role in properly preparing his replacement with passed on experience and skillsets. What a win win situation by just restructuring HR philosophy.

  107. Why don’t the people over 40 get together and stop buying things from businesses that show blatant age discrimination in the hiring process? The only way out of this is to make the profits suffer from companies involved in this.