Question
I found a position listing with Company A, where I interviewed a couple of years ago. Back then, it was a contract job, but the interview with the hiring manager went very well. Then the job was cancelled due to funding constraints. Too bad, because I really hit it off with the manager. So I moved on to Company B where I accepted an offer for a permanent position.
Fast forward two years. Company A again has a position, but it’s permanent this time. Great, I think, so I contacted Ms. Hiring Manager. She remembered me and said she would be very glad to talk with me again, as I definitely have the skills they are looking for. So far so good, right? She says she will have someone call me to set up a time for an in-person interview.
Company A’s HR person called in the middle of the work day. Here’s how it went:
“Hi, this is [Ms. HR] from Company A. Is this a good time?”
“Uh, sure,” I say as I leap from my desk to go somewhere I can talk to her, expecting a quick conversation to make an appointment with Ms. Hiring Manager.
Ms. HR: “I want to make an appointment for you to come in and talk with Ms. Hiring Manager.”
“Great,” I say, “When would be a good time be for Ms. Hiring Manager and me to meet?”
Ms. HR says, “Well, first I need to be sure you are qualified for the position.”
Me: “Huh? I already spoke with Ms. Hiring Manager yesterday about the position, and she said you would call and make an appointment for us.”
Ms. HR “Well, I don’t want to waste Ms. Hiring Manager’s time.”
(Me, silently, “Wha…? Okaayyy.”)
Ms. HR: “I see you applied for a contract position with us before.”
Me: “Yes, I did. That’s why I contacted Ms. Hiring Manager when I saw that a permanent position was open in her department.”
Ms. HR <snarky tone>: “Well, are you ready to make a commitment to a permanent position since you applied for a contract position last time? We want someone who will stay with us and make a commitment!”
Me: “Umm, wasn’t the position I was talking with Ms. Hiring Manager a permanent position?”
Ms. HR: “Yes, but you have had a lot of contract positions.”
Me: “My last three jobs have been permanent positions. As for the contracts, you do know what’s been going on in the IT field and the economy the last few years, right? I took the job that was available, and sometimes it was a contract.”
Ms. HR (interrupting and in a loud voice): “WE NEED TO BE SURE YOU ARE READY TO MAKE A COMMITMENT TO A JOB.”
Me: “I applied for a permanent position, so that is what I am looking for.”
Ms. HR, changing direction: “What salary do you expect for this job?”
Me: “I don’t generally discuss salary until I have a better feel for the job responsibilities and benefits.”
Ms. HR: “I need to know what you want so you are not wasting Ms. Hiring Manager’s time. We can’t bring you in here if you want TOO MUCH MONEY!”
Me: “I’d rather discuss that with the hiring manager.”
(Several back and forths about what I want, and the reasons I must tell her, that she delivers in an increasingly nasty tone of voice.)
Ms. HR (changing tactics again): “Okay, so what are you making now?”
Me: “My compensation is confidential. I don’t disclose it when I’m negotiating for a new job because it gives an employer an unfair advantage.”
Ms. HR: “In all my years in HR I have NEVER heard anyone say that! (Raises voice, in a nasty tone.) Never, never! I’ve never heard of that!”
Finally, I realize she has just sprung a phone interview on me with no warning, under the guise of scheduling a meeting, and was verbally abusing me. Whoa!?
Me: “Your company is not a good fit for me. Thank you for your time. Goodbye!”
Generally speaking I was a good candidate for the job, but the company is not a good candidate for me, if this is an indication of the culture. I really have to wonder if Ms. Hiring Manager is aware that Ms. HR is driving away the very candidates the manager wants to interview, instead of attempting to recruit them. Or does the company only want to hire people whose self-worth and self-esteem are so low that they would put up with this type of behavior?
What do I say? I really do want to let someone know. Honestly, I was so upset by the whole thing I couldn’t address it right away, because my response would have been unprintable.
So, what do I say to Ms. Hiring Manager, if anything?
Nick’s Reply
What’s glaringly missing from that HR “interview” is any discussion about your qualifications, which she emphasized from the start was the purpose of her unscheduled phone call. That tells us everything we need to know.
I’m printing your entire dialogue to demonstrate just how disconcerting and ridiculous an “HR screening phoner” can be. This is very common among employers that permit HR to run the show. It can be an enormous PR disaster in the professional communities from which a company needs to recruit.
I’d call Ms. Hiring Manager, since you already know one another, and since she directed Ms. HR to schedule a meeting. And, since you’ve already made your decision not to pursue a job there (I think this is the right call), here’s how to say it to the hiring manager who invited you in, only to let a mad dog chase you away.
How to Say It
“I enjoyed talking with you once again last week and I was looking forward to meeting to discuss the job you have open. I’m flattered that you remembered me from our interview two years ago! Unfortunately, the call I received from your HR department was very disturbing. I’m sorry to tell you this, but I believe it’s important to be frank. As a result of that call, I’m not sure I’d ever consider a position with your company. Is your board of directors aware of how your HR staff portrays your company, and how they treat job applicants?”
She will ask you what you’re talking about. Don’t get into it. Just send her the transcript you sent me, and add a note.
How to Say It
“I hope we get to meet again under better circumstances, perhaps at another company — because I’m impressed with the way you present yourself. I did not produce this transcript for you. I wrote it up for a friend. But I think you will see what I mean when you read it. I wish you the best, and I’d always be glad to talk with you in the future. I don’t consider this experience any reflection of you. Kind regards…”
The point is to rattle HR’s cage and make sure the manager is aware of a serious recruiting and public relations problem. You did the right thing shutting down Ms. HR. She was loaded for bear, and anything that moves looks like a bear to her. But let’s not forget about Ms. Hiring Manager. She needs to stay on top of her HR department or this kind of experience will continue to cost good candidates and undermine her own success.
Just ask yourself, how would the board of directors respond if they were to see this crank in action, representing her company to its professional community?
Sheesh!
Thanks for sharing! On to the next, hopefully a better one! If you hear anything back from the hiring manager, I’d love to know. Please use your judgment with my suggested How to Say It comments to the manager. Shape and change the message and words so they suit your objectives.
In your experience, how common is such HR behavior when employers are trying to recruit good hires? If you’re a hiring manager, have you seen such missteps from HR? How much of the time does this happen? Should this job seeker attempt to get an interview anyway? How should she say it to the hiring manager? If you work in HR, please tell us what gives?
: :
“HR was better when they were Salary and Benefits. They were in charge of making sure the pay envelopes were full and the health insurance was paid up. Nothing else.” Paraphrasing Dear ol’ Dad, who spent some of his career in Salary and Benefits
I was thinking much the same as you, Nick. However, I’d also suggest that in that follow-up phone call with the Hiring Manager, ask her how much trouble she might get into if she circumvents the HR department. Suggest — not request — an in-person interview with the Hiring Manager to discuss (1) the particulars of the job and the job posting; and (2) the inappropriate behavior of the HR representative. If the firm is worth working for if the bad HR conduct can be corrected, and the Hiring Manager is motivated to engage HR or senior management, perhaps some changes will be made to the firm’s HR practices (and personnel). The writer has already expressed a lack of interest in working for that firm under the current circumstances. If the Hiring Manager wants to pursue both the candidate and the recommended changes to HR, the candidate might get an even better package out of them. It’s risky — but what isn’t these days ?
Nick nailed it with this one. I had a similar situation, where I was approached by a recruiter for a position with a hospital. Had three interviews, thought it went great, I was up against one other person, but was told I was their top pick. And then the waiting started. Told the recruiter hey, I’ve got someone else trying to offer me a job, I need an answer by the end of the week or I’m going to withdraw. I was told okay, and then heard nothing on either direction.
So fast forward a few months and the recruiter contacts me again. Tells me that the person who they picked didn’t work out and they want to revisit it with me. I like the company, but I tell the recruiter in no uncertain terms that I’m only going to do one interview at most due to the stringing along from last time. I do the interview and again, they love me. Then they want me to do two more, same as before — I refuse.
I contact the hiring manager directly and give him my feedback as to why I’m not doing it. I get a response that basically states that my request was not passed along, and I infer that from last time they made a pick and it was up to the recruiter to pass the rejection along. So the recruiter isn’t doing their job and passing communication in either direction. Well, now I don’t trust them at all. Also he states that the three-step interview is standardized and everyone will do it. That also puts me off from the company — we had just interviewed a couple of months ago, why do I need to re-meet the entire team again? It tells me your company is inflexible as well.
“…why do I need to re-meet…?”
You already know the answer so I’ll ask you – why bother being a door mat for incompetence on yet another round of “jump through OUR hoops?
By jumping back into the mix “a few months” later, you literally invited more of the same abuse upon yourself.
I didn’t “invite more of the same abuse”, jackwagon. I expected my statement to be communicated to the employer, which it clearly wasn’t, and there was already a history of the middleman lying and either negligently or willingly dropping communication on both sides. Once that came out, which wasn’t until I reached out directly to the hiring manager, the trust was gone.
In my opinion, this is a peek at how things may go if hired at a company where HR is allowed to run roughshod over candidates.
Why do companies allow HR to treat candidates like crap? I don’t understand it. And, it is hard to find good people. Why chase away a motivated, interested candidate, only to restart the process of looking for another candidate who may or may not work out.
Perhaps letting the Board of Directors or higher ups know this is how your HR department represents your company to the public. And word gets around fast about bad behavior at companies. I’ve been at professional meetings where people talk about the good and bad places to work for. They’ll never post it on LinkedIn but word of mouth is powerful.
The answer is, Snakes in Suits. Narcissists and psychopaths REALLY REALLY like having power over people and making them suffer for no reason.
They GRAVITATE to management positions, and if top management doesn’t aggressively weed them out, they establish themselves, hire lackeys, and generally get very hard to remove.
About 3% of the general population is psychopaths, and they’re often very hard to detect because they read people well. Well adjusted psychopaths who have directed their psychopathy to positive goals can be very helpful to corporations, but there’s a thin wall between ‘good for the company’ and ‘good for me’. This explains Enron, etc.
I suspect HR is the perfect goal for them, because it’s a backwater in the corporation where little work is expected, and there’s little accountability.
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/snakes-in-suits-paul-babiakrobert-d-hare?variant=39689396617250
“One might think that conning or bullying traits in a job applicant would be so obvious to employers that such candidates would not be hired for important jobs, especially those where the ability to get along with others is critical. One might also think that abusive, deceitful behavior toward coworkers would eventually lead to disciplinary action and termination. But, based on the cases we have reviewed, this often is not the case.
There are four possible reasons for this.
First, some core psychopathic personality traits—we might call them talents—may seem attractive in job applicants, and contribute to their success at being hired. For example, psychopaths can be very charming, able to talk their way past even the most seasoned interviewers. When it is to their advantage, they can display a charisma that can disarm and beguile even the most wary individuals. Just as those who have unwittingly married a psychopath find themselves trapped in a web of deceit, abuse, and pain, so too can a company make a faulty hiring decision and find itself with a serious problem on its hands down the road. Psychopaths are skilled at social manipulation, and the job interview is a perfect place to apply their talents.
Second, some companies quite innocently recruit individuals with psychopathic tendencies because some hiring managers may mistakenly attribute “leadership” labels to what are, in actuality, psychopathic behaviors. For example, taking charge, making decisions, and getting others to do what you want are classic features of leadership and management, yet they can also be well-packaged forms of coercion, domination, and manipulation…
Third, the changing nature of business itself is also a contributing factor to the increase in psychopathic persons being hired….
With the need to embrace change came a switch from hiring “organization men and women” who would maintain the status quo to hiring individuals who could shake the trees, rattle cages, and get things done quickly. This hiring switch inadvertently led to the selection of some individuals with psychopathic traits and characteristics. Unfortunately, the general state of confusion that change brings to any situation can make psychopathic personality traits—the appearance of confidence, strength, and calm—often look like the answer to the organization’s problems. Yet, hiring individuals with these traits seemed like the right thing to do. Egocentricity, callousness, and insensitivity suddenly became acceptable trade-offs in order to get the talents and skills needed to survive in an accelerated, dispassionate business world.
Fourth, psychopathic individuals, known for ignoring rules and regulations, coupled with a talent for conning and manipulation, found these new, more flexible organization structures inviting. The temptation for someone with a psychopathic personality to join a new, fast-paced, competitive, and highly effective “transitional” organization, especially one with few constraints or rules, is too great, and the personal rewards too significant, to be ignored. The effect of these things is that psychopaths are more attracted to work for businesses that offer fast-paced, high-risk, high-profit environments.
It is very important to understand how and why the psychopath so readily manipulates people and organizations, given the increasing financial and social risk to companies wishing to survive in a chaotic business environment filled with uncertainty, constant change, and increasing regulation. In addition to financial harm to a company and its shareholders, there are also personal dangers to coworkers. There is the risk to the careers of those subjected to the emotional or physical abuse of a psychopathic coworker.”
@Peter: It’s not hard to think back about people we’ve all undoubtedly worked with who fit the mold.
Peter,
I read Snakes in Suits ~ 10 years ago. It fit my personal experience in finance and banking perfectly.
Nick, once again I deeply appreciate your unabashed advocacy for candor, self-respect, and the greater good. I’ve always been an advocate for truth and sanity, and been willing to speak truth to power in a direct, yet candid way. While there were times earlier in my career that my approach could have been better timed, it’s taken decades to realize others’ inability to appreciate and act on my truthtelling says far more about them than about me.
Thank you for encouraging this writer to follow up with the Hiring Manager. Too many good people fail to call out bad behavior in the interest of not burning bridges. This is one of the many reasons we see rampant shenanigans like these in the workplace today. What the company does with that information is up to them, but I hope more people become more assertive in calling out abuse and b.s. for what it is.
Susana,
Strongly agree. Too many cowards in the workplace currently.
I think few people would bother telling the hiring manager what HR did, simply because they think it would be as much a waste of time as most interview processes themselves are. Job seekers become numb.
After the phone call ends…
HR: “The talent shortage continues.”
Jobseekers: “LOL!”
As someone who has spent decades in global HR leadership, I read this story with equal parts disappointment and resolve.
Disappointment — because I’ve seen this too often: candidates treated with condescension, disrespect, or outright hostility by gatekeepers in HR many times who forget that recruiting is not about power—it’s about connection, clarity, and mutual respect.
Resolve — because we in HR can and must do better. We are often the first voice the organization presents to a candidate. That voice should reflect the company’s values, not drive talent away!
To the original poster: You were right to walk away. No one should have to defend their career choices under interrogation, which sounds more like the Spanish Inquisition, especially not from someone who hasn’t read your résumé or taken two minutes to understand the context. And springing a phone interview unannounced? That’s not just unprofessional—it’s poor planning disguised as process. No, HR has failed here big time.
That said, I want to speak for the many HR professionals across organisations, big and small, public and private, who are not like this. There are exceptional HR people out there—strategic, kind, respectful, values-driven. We advocate for candidates internally, challenge our processes, and see hiring as a partnership, not a transaction.
Please know that for every bad experience, there are also people in HR who will treat you with dignity, prepare you for meetings, give you context on salary bands, and tell you when the process won’t be smooth, because transparency builds trust and respect.
We can’t change the entire system overnight, but we can each commit to raising the standards every time.
And to my fellow HR professionals reading this: if we’re not serving both our company and our candidates with integrity, then we’re not doing our job in the right way. Full stop.
Hear hear! Thank you for speaking to “your people” and reminding us all there are still pros among your ranks. That helps those of us on the verge of unproductive rage and total apathy to press on for a bit longer.
Speaking of which, I’m a professional coach who had a refreshingly positive experience with HR today. I had a call with an HR Director to support one of my clients (their employee) in reporting the poor (and illegal) treatment they’d received at the hands of a supervisor and senior leader. I came away impressed with how the HR Director handled things.
Keep it up, Demina, we see you and others like you! (Cheering from Los Angeles, where we know something about standing up for what is right, fair, and good. :) )
@Demina: Thanks for posting from the HR side. While these figures are not empirically backed, I contend that 95% of HR people and 95% of headhunters/recruiters aren’t worth spit. It cuts on both sides.
I know many good HR workers, and more important, they know who they are. Likewise headhunters. It’s up to us to call out the failures in this biz and to help job seekers and employers realize how they get played when they accept the status quo.
When the going gets weird, raise your standards. Thanks for giving us an example from the HR 5%.
In my ]personal, limited] experience, the hiring process is usually not an indication of the company (or, at least, particular departments…think Skunkeorks vs the rest of Lockheed Martin).
Not to say this example of internal recruiting does anyone a favor, or reflect well on the company.
In that situation, I would contact the Hiring Manager and have a chat. Even if the Hiring Manager can not directly address the problem, they can probably burn a favor to hire someone they want. Especially if more senior management knows they make good hiring decisions.
An aside: One of the worst interviews in my 45 years in the workforce happened as a result of an executive forwarding my resume (I know, Nick). My feedback to her got a call from the Director of Recruiting (which was a waste of time). Which I also let he know about. Probably did not change anything, but a C-level executive knew.
Unpopular opinions:
HR was better when it was called Personnel.
HR was better before an expensive certification was needed in order to get any sort of decent HR job.
( I couldn’t see myself doing the SHRM certification so I switched career.)
HR is controlled by people who get a little bit of power, and abuse it.
HR attracts sociopaths. I worked with a few that would have given the current POTUS a run for his money.
Sonesta and Demina nailed it- this is CLASSIC psychopath abuse. They try to make you feel like it’s somehow YOUR fault. Robert O’Brien also nailed it- you should warn the good hiring manager so they don’t get retribution from the evil HR person.
The OP’s response also nailed it- lying and manipulation are the hallmarks of psychopaths, and they’re very very good at it. They can’t be reformed. The only way to deal with them is to avoid, expel or rigidly control them.
Because they’re only 3% of the population, most people in an organization are ok, but the psychopaths DO tend to get themselves ensconced and entrenched.
Most of Government and Law is there to protect us against psychopaths.
Come to think of it, most of the ‘excessive’ structure of old business models and religion was there to protect against psychopaths too.