Question
Ask The Headhunter was recommended to me by one of the folks who is helping me in my job search. It’s really been beneficial and I thank you. I hope you can help me with a potentially nasty reference.
I am unemployed due to a “Reduction in Force” at the small start-up company where I was working. I was fired from my job previous to the start-up company. I had the worst boss in the world. I did a great job that everyone (including the boss at one point) acknowledged, but ultimately I was fired.
How should I handle questions in the interview process about why I left that job? I’m not certain, but if they call that employer and ask if I am eligible for re-hire, the human resources (HR) office would say no. Thanks for any help you can give.
Nick’s Reply
Thanks for your kind words about Ask The Headhunter and welcome to the Newsletter. Your question has two parts: how to handle interview questions about why you left a job, and how to deal with a potentially nasty reference. My advice about the first: How much to say about getting fired.
As to the second, your references from the start-up will count for a lot. Pay most attention to those. A Preemptive Reference from someone there could quickly solve your problem.
Companies are pretty careful about giving references nowadays because they can get sued. If you believe your termination was improper, you really should see an attorney. Even if there’s no lawsuit or cash settlement, you may be able to get the company to “clean up” your file. This could mean a lot to you in the coming years.
Is a nasty reference lurking?
While your old HR office might give out nothing more than your dates of employment, a prospective employer could poke around in other corners to find out why you left the job. You might be able to hire a reference-checking service that will report back to you after they make inquiries. In any case, assume the worst and prepare to counter any nasty reference. Your challenge is to produce a couple of references from people you worked with at that company – or people who know the company – who will say good things about you. That will put things into context.
But, you might be able to do even more to de-fuse one vindictive boss.
Get a reference about the nasty reference
I once placed a manager whose ex-boss provided this reference: “He’s a bum. Can’t be counted on, doesn’t do a good job, and I’d never recommend him to anyone.”
My guy got the job because I produced another reference who casually explained that the candidate’s boss was not credible. After providing a good reference, he volunteered, “Oh, by the way. If you talk to your candidate’s last boss, let me give you a word of advice. He’s a kook, and I wouldn’t be surprised at anything he says. He hates everybody who ever left his team.”
You might be able to do something with this, if your old boss is known to others as a backstabber.
The indirect reference
Let’s go back to what to say in the interview about that old job, if it comes up. My advice: say as little as possible. Focus instead on the job at hand, and introduce what I call “an indirect reference.”
How to Say It
“I want to work in a company where I’d be proud to be an employee. I didn’t feel that way about that old company. John Jones has told me a lot about your company, and I’ve checked you out through other contacts. What I’m told consistently is that you value and reward hard work. I’d like to show you how I believe my expertise in XYZ could be applied to make your business more successful and at the same time provide me with the kinds of opportunities that are important to me.”
Make it a matter of trust
It’s critical that you develop contacts like “John Jones” – credible mutual contacts you can cite who will stand up for you. An employer will take you seriously if a trusted mutual contact recommends you indirectly. So, before you interview with a prospective employer, do whatever it takes to make those links to establish your credibility.
That’s how you preempt any negative comments from one bad boss. Make sense? Try it.
Have you ever been nuked by an unfair nasty reference? How did you learn about it? Were you able to deflect it?
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Nick,
Very important topic. We’ve all been unfairly evaluated in one job or another along the way.
I had the experience at a large aerospace company I worked for in the 80s and 90s. I got put on a very chaotic project and mixed up with some other (unknown) employee. A couple times I called my old boss about openings I knew they had (after I’d left the company). His crew reported that all I did was chat on the phone all day. I didn’t even have a phone on my desk! I just chalked it up to a case of mistaken identity and moved on. But this week’s advice could have made a difference.
Thanks for your weekly column. It sure helps struggling job seekers!
I identify “friendlies” at each job. The people who will give me a solid reference. Even if my boss is not permitted to.
I describe them as “informal leaders,” the people we go to before bringing something to the boss’ attention.
As for “eligible for rehire,” if I have any doubt, I fall back on “They were a great company/boss to work for, but they took anyone leaving a personal insult.”
An aside: When I graduated, I had my dad call my references and workplace. His report was “everything positive.” And if I ever needed work, the owner of the company I worked until graduation absolutely adored me.
@Gregory: It’s not difficult to arrange for someone to check your references for you so you’ll know whether or not you have a problem.
Producing references from others at the company who know you and your work is a great strategy. I’ve recommended it several times to clients with good results.
Another source of references is extra-company stakeholders who can speak to your work there.
@Tim: Excellent suggestions. There are many sources of references you can turn to. It works best if you identify and cultivate them long before you need them.
Nick, I disagree with your suggestion for handling references for former employment. A former employer must be SILENT about anything other than dates when you started and ended employment (depending on the state in which you worked). Anything else may be used to trigger legal action against the former employer. Even voice inflection while providing this information can and has been used against former employers in particularly nasty litigation (seriously, look it up). I’m not counsel, but you should be able to confirm this with someone who is.
One of my recent former employers mentioned more than once in conversations, to never use them as a reference. That wasn’t intended to be mean, but my boss explained their corporate counsel advised senior management to steer clear of any potential litigation by merely being brief, and only giving the minimum factual information possible (start, end dates, etc.).
As for “explaining” your separation, “reduction in force” should be sufficient. In my opinion, “fired” is a derogatory term, so don’t volunteer it. More than once, I experienced a reduction in force, and that’s the reason for termination. Period. If HR or someone tries to engage you in conversation about being “fired,” don’t play that game. Respond with “termination” or “laid off” and repeat the “reduction in force” based on corporate economic and/or market conditions.
Whatever you choose to say about former employers should be 100% positive. Regardless of whether or not your former employer was a knuckle-dragging damaged DNA dirtbag, never badmouth them. Then change the subject and move on. If HR or your interviewer returns to questioning how you got “fired” you may consider getting up and walking out (really).